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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Winky45 V RBoS

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Hi folks... newbie here so be gentle.


Received my statements and now going through them to make my claim, we have added up £1079 in charges, can someone advise what the best spreadsheet to use is, I would like to claim the interest also as very time they have charged me I have been put further and further into overdraft.


Due to our lives completely changing around and our income dropping by more than half every month, we ran into difficulties, we had an agreed overdraft of £600 and the charges kept taking us over the agreed limit and then adding further charges to the account to the piont where we just couldn't keep up with it, the overdraft rose to £880.94 in June of 2004, so we borrowed £285 from a family member to bring it back down to £595.94 below the £600 overdraft, but they had another charge that had been lying waiting to be taken off, which put us back over the agreed limit, the account hasn't been used since 3rd September 2004, and now we are at Jan 2007, we are with a DMP with the cccs and the account now stands at £985.69 overdrawn, they stopped the charges in Feb 2006 after the ccs hounded them for a while, but interest just gets piled on each month, we pay in £7.42 they take between £11.91 and as high as £17.17 in interest every month from the account us, so we are fighting a losing battle.

The amount of charges we can reclaim back would cover the overdraft and pay it off if we won, and would be a massive boost to us, and a lot less worry, but we would be deeply satisfied to get one back at them for the distress they have caused us over the past three years.


Any help with the spreadsheet would be appreiated, in the advanced spreadsheet the one recomended by Vamps I understand it to an extent, but I am a bit a loss as to what to put in the further interest-interest rate cell, in the notes its says to suit yourself what to put in, but I don't want to push them to far, just to give them a nudge for some of the interest back.


Thanks in advance!

Winky :wink:

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ok.. spent all day yesterday doing the sums and have worked out my spreadsheet, so I now do the Preliminary approach for repayment letter and get it sent off to my branch, I am using the template on in the library.


No going back now.... :eek:

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Welcome aboard! Use the inevitable time spent waiting for them to answer you to keep up your reading here, theres no other effective way of diverting yourself from your impatience, hehe.

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Thanks HydraUK,


Changed my mind...Just going over everything again letter won't be sent for a few days yet now, I want to make sure I have everything in my head straight and know exactly what I am doing and why I am claiming etc... don't won't to rush in and make a mistake.


As said previously we are with the cccs on a DMP, if I were to make a claim for the contractual interest would they then be able to use that in defence and say that we would not have still had the money in the bank due to our financial difficultlies as our debts are way above what the bank has taken from us.(hope this has came across right) I wouldn't be able to defend the claim in court if my debts are high, its obvious that the money wouldn't have remained in the bank account and collect the interest. I have probably got this all wrong but just want to get my claim right, but at the same time they did a major damage to us over the past 18 years... the more I can get out of them the better, every £1000 of our debts would take about 6 months of our DMP.


Also how do I find out the contractual rate the only rates I can find on the website is here: I was on a royalities account, now in the hands of the debt department and transfered to an interest paying account.


RBS: Current Accounts - Rates & charges



any help would be appreiated!


Winky ;)

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Ok think I'm ready for my prelim.... what do you think?


18th January 2007



Request for repayment of charges


Dear Sir/Madam,





I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 5 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.


I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.


I calculate that you have taken £961.41 plus £205.65 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £1167.06,

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter, I will be pursuing contractual interest rate for the amount being claimed, this will be at a rate of 16.25% which is the lowest Royalities authorised overdraft interest rate,if you would now be so kind as to check your records for these charges, and refund them fully and immediately, along with contractual interest as detailed in the attached schedule, then I shall consider the matter resolved.


Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.


I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.


I will give you 14 days ( Thursday 1st February ) to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.


If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.


After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.





Yours faithfully,



Anything need changed before posting?


Winky ;)

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Received a letter today from the royal bank as follows:



Dear Mr Winky


Thank you for your letter dated 23rd January 2007 (it was dated 18th January)


I am sorry that we have not yet been able to respond to you and would ask that you bear with us meantime. We are currently investigating and will respond to you as soon as possible.


Thank you for your patience to date.


Yours sincerely



Customer relations



So I now just send on my LBA on the 1st February as planned?


Winky ;)

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Well 1st February today and a letter from the bank arrives...


I was claiming £961.41 plus £205.65 in overdraft interest as this was always because of charges, I also worked out the contractual interest and told them I would be claiming for it if it goes to court, so today receives a letter offering the full amount of charges £961.41, no overdraft interest, my account hasn't been used since 3rd September 2004 when the balance was at £595.94, and now we are at Jan 2007, and the account now stands at £985.69 overdrawn, they stopped the charges in Feb 2006 but still remained adding interest every month, so it would clear the overdraft with them, and only leave me £20 odd to put towards it to close the account.


Do I just accept this now after just the prelim letter? or do I go ahead and partially accept it and claim the remainding £205.65 interest by putting in a LBA letter.


Advice would be appreiated don't know whether just to accept it or not.


Winky :wink:

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yep, however you will find you will probably have to go as far as MCOL and nearly a court date in order to get all the interest back. (seems the trend) However its your money and whether you feel that is enough for you then by all means settle.

I didnt claim for interest as the majority of my charges were from late 2005. Didn't seem worth it to me. And part of me feels guilty for mismanaging my account! Sadistic self punishment I suppose :)!!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Having taken advise from others I went ahead and proceded to ask for the extra OD interest of £203.45, this is purely OD interest on the penalties and not the whole of the OD.


I received this letter from the bank today, just wondering what folks think whether I should just go ahead an accept it or not, or have I case to pursue against them.





Thank you for your correspondence received here on 12/2/07 relating to our recent offer to settle your complaint for the amount of £961.41 as a gesture of goodwill.


I am sorry that you feel unable to accept this offer, but having validated your claim and discounted any charges that do not relate to unarranged borrowing, I can assure you that it represents all administration charges that were applied.


As we are making a goodwill gesture by offering you an amount equivalent to these charges, we are unwilling to consider additional payments in respect of any consequential interest you may have calculated. Similarly, we will not refund any legal or other costs you may have incurred in pursuing your claim.


I believe out offer is a fair one and hope that, on reflection, you will feel able to accept it. If so, please sign and return the original acceptance Performa and I will arrange for you account to be credited.


If however you remain unwilling to accept out offer, I regret that you will need to either refer your case to the financial Ombudsman Service who offer a free independent review, or alternatively proceed with legal action.


Should you wish to approach the financial Ombudsman Service, please let me know and I shall arrange for the Banks confirmation of Final Response to be issued.


Yours sincerely



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winky you definitely have a case for this interest to be refunded. They obviously have a policy of not refunding it unless people start court claims. Its up to you if you think its not worth the hassle or are desperate for the money now but if you're worried that they have a case not to refund it, don't be.

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As it happens the letter was late in arriving as the close date for previous letter was Friday, so I had already sent the LBA yesterday before I received this letter today, so thinkn I will just leave things the way the are until the LBA date is up, I am in no rush as I won't get anything out of it anyway, my aco**** is £985 in OD, and hasn't been used since 2004 so I may as well continue with my claim.


Thanks for you info its all appreiated.


winky ;)

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I will write it up today, I would rather they were kept up to date with what I was thinking and that way I am giving them more chances to settle before court.


Thanks again


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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All,


Came on last night as I am due to file court claim today, now thinking I will just except the offer they have gave me, they have offered my full charges of £961.41 but not the OD interest £203.45 that they have took, so I had rejected it and was taking it further, to get my money back.


I would need to put in two claims to get my full money back, but after reading this and some other threads I am wondering if this is the right route too go down and whether to just accept the charges and run.


Bit confused now, any help appreciated.


Winky :wink:

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I've not paid enough attention to the scottish way being in Wales, but isn't there a maximum of £1,500 somewhere? I know the small claims is £750 but I've seen others quote a £1,500 ceiling for something, can't remember what.


Before making your decision have a good look around, try to stir up some responses here. Bear in mind if you do accept you do stand to lose the OD interest AND the additional 8% statuatory interest you get to add as a result of filing AND (possibly) costs.


You don't have to file on the day you say in your letter, let it stew over the weekend, get some reading in and try and divert some knowledgable-about-the-scottish-way people to this thread, then decide on Monday ;)

If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know


Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!



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