Should I use the financial ombudsman?

[Kermit Power]

Hi again,

 

Reading through the FAQ section (yes, I did, right the way to the end, honestly), it says that I should explore all avenues for reclaiming funds before resorting to legal action, but makes no mention of the financial ombudsman.

 

Having sent initial correspondance to HSBC regarding my wife's charges, they have responded with a flat refusal to refund and a letter saying they will refuse to enter into any further correspondance on the matter, and if we wish to take matters further, we should contact the financial ombudsman.

 

Should we?

 

If we don't, and the claim does go to court, would it count against us that we hadn't tried that option? Alternatively, if we do try it, and nothing comes of it (as seems to be the general outcome) would that count against us in court?

[Glenn UK]

In short don't waste your time, send the LBA assuming you sent them the prelim, when they ignore it file your claim at court.

 

The court will see you have given them at least 28 days to do something positive and be happy.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[angry cat]

I totally agree with Glenn.

 

Love AC

[thecornflake]

I too agree, however this is oddly related to something that happened yesterday evening.

 

Sky called us (we haven't paid them for a while) and my wife spoke them, mentioning at one point that we were claiming back charges. The person at Sky said he had done the same, but he had used the Financial Ombudsman and got his charges back straight away. Unfortunately my wife didn't tell me this until after the call, otherwise I would have pressed for further details. First I've heard of the ombudsman taking any actual action though.

[Keith22]

In the Daily Express (Your Money page 36) today there is a quote from the FOS:-

 

"Every single consumer who has come to us has had a refund of charges, says Emma Parker at the FOS. As soon as we approach a Bank about a customer claiming to have been charged unfairly, they have been offered a settlement before we need to intervene any further."

 

Hmm I wonder! It's the first I have heard of it. I have no experience of claiming unlawful charges via the FOS but they were helpful (and successful) in my claim for refund of PPI from Lloyds

[Glenn UK]

Perhpas it is worth investigating after all.

 

My take on this is that if the FOS gets you your charges, interest you paid on those charges and interest on the lot, then it may be worth pursuing if they are quicker than the courts.

 

Last time i heard was that claims were notbeing dealt with until at least six months after submission, hence my original comment.

 

Somehting esle to consider is if you wish to claim back beyond 6 years and whether contractual interest is part of your objectives.

 

If you went to the FOS and asked but didnt get these then it may be impossible for you to proceed to court to get what I believe you are entitled to, assuing the bank offer full settlement of the charges and interest paid already by the claimant.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[thecornflake]

I think it might be worth trying to contact this Emma Parker and finding out more information. Plus it doesn't say the banks offer the full amounts. And I'm sure they don't add on contractual interest, but you could always add it on and then contact the FOS.

[Keith22]

Yes - I bet the Bank offer would not include any interest. My claim for refund of PPI and interest is being dealt with by the FSO and they have been successful in as much as the Bank refunded the premiums (without notifying me or the FSO) but without interest that I was claiming. The FSO are now persuing this. So this forums idea of a successful claim and Emmas Parkers may not be the same!

[Volkswagen]

Yes - I bet the Bank offer would not include any interest. My claim for refund of PPI and interest is being dealt with by the FSO and they have been successful in as much as the Bank refunded the premiums (without notifying me or the FSO) but without interest that I was claiming. The FSO are now persuing this. So this forums idea of a successful claim and Emmas Parkers may not be the same!

 

Hi all,

 

This is my question also. While the FOS may be getting settlements, can anyone confirm if these settlements are for the costs plus contractural interest? I am about to send off my first letter and would like to know if I should go the FOS or courts route? It would definatly be the courts route if I thought the FOS were only getting costs and not contractural interest repaid.

 

Volkswagen

[emmaf01]

I was watching the BBC Breakfast show yesterday (02/06/07). They had a bloke from Which? on, who said they were advising people to complain to the FSO rather than to go through the courts, as the court claims were now a lottery.

 

Is this a viable option now? I have 2 ongoing court claims, one in the early stages, but the other I am doing my bundle and have a court date for the 21/06/07.

 

Are things with court claims still reasonably successful, or is the situation becoming more uncertain?

[half ax I]

See FAQs - complaints about bank charges which would seem to suggest that bank's prefer not to have the FOS investigate. Youngest's claim against Halifax has been denied and this would seem the next step to take I think. At least worth a shot.

 

S

[Volkswagen]

half ax I,

 

FOS say - If a bank offers to settle a complaint in full, there is nothing for the ombudsman to decide. We don’t look into cases where a consumer has not suffered a loss – or where reasonable offers have been made.

 

I am still worried because the only reasonable offer that I would be happy with is full settlement because of the amount of money involved (£14k) and the fact that our family went through 6 years of hardship because we were in the clutches of the bank and could not get ourselves out largely because of the fees we were continually being charged. Several times we paid a fee of £700 each time they met us to discuss the fees etc.

 

Volkswagen

[half ax I]

Volswagen

I guess it depends on the individual circumstances. The paragraph before the one you have quoted indicates that they haven't yet had to go forward with an investigation - I guess because the banks don't want that level of intrusion from FOS. I am assuming that the banks cough up in full for the charges and maybe without interest.

 

Sorry to hear of your hardship. I can't see how they could justify a fee of £700 for any service. What do they call that service?

 

As I see it the FOS option is a no lose one. It doesn't stop you following other routes via the court and should at least reopen negotiations with the bank if an offer is forthcoming, which in our case will be better than the current get lost final response.

 

To reply to Kermit Powers last question in original post. I don't think it will count against you. On the contrary you would appear to have explored all avenues prior to litigation and satisfies the "Over-riding Objectives" of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

S

[surprise]

I don't know whether this will help with the FOS and their timescales, but I sent my daughter's claim to FOS against Lloyds TSB on 23rd April, I also copied in the MP. Did this because she is on benefits. Charges were refunded on 1st May 07. Not sure if this was because of MP or FOS. She was claiming £320 and they paid her £350. I did advise FOS however for some reason they have carried on with the claim as she had a letter on Saturday advising her that they had written to Lloyds and they would come back with their response within 4 weeks.

[Kermit Power]

Just to close out my part of the thread which I originally started, I did take my wife's claim through the ombudsman.

 

When I first wrote to the bank, I took what I thought was a reasonable approach of asking them to refund all charges over £12 per incident, as that was the maximum amount recently published by the RSA for credit card charges.

 

HSBC refused to refund so much as a penny.

 

So, I waited. I figured I'd see if there was a ruling in the interim on bank charges. There wasn't, so I took it to the ombudsman who said "sorry, this is more than 6 months after your complaint to the bank, so we can't deal with it".

 

I explained to them that I'd been waiting to see if a ruling would come out that would save me and them time and effort in getting a judgement. They agreed that this was reasonable, and that they would investigate the case.

 

10 days later, HSBC made an offer to refund all the charges made in the past 6 years before the claim, plus the lesser amount of charges made since the process first began.

 

Personally, I take the view that a portion of these charges was perfectly justifiable, since my wife had been pretty crap with her money, so we didn't hold out for interest or anything but accepted that. Had HSBC agreed to my original request, then they would've saved themselves over £2k!

 

So, the moral of the story is this - don't hesitate to use the Ombudsman. They were extremely efficient, nice people to deal with, and you also actual names and email addresses for the people handling your case, rather than having to go through a call centre. I really couldn't recommend them too highly!

[tifo]

My personal experience of the Ombudsman and talking with the Adjudicator on 3 cases is that they are very quick.

 

They will aim to conclude your claim within 4 - 6 weeks. They send emails to their own contact within the bank which is immediate and the bank knows you are now serious. Every bank has an 'Ombudsman' contact.

 

Process :

 

After you send your form they will pass to an adjudicator within 2 weeks.

 

Adjudicator will write to the bank asking for schedule of all charges and proof of actual cost within 2 weeks, prior to formal action starting (this is if you have already gone over the 8 weeks you have to give the bank).

 

At this time bank will make you an offer as they don't want to give proof to the Ombudsman of actual costs.

 

If you refuse the offer, you will get another offer within 2 weeks again.

 

If you cannot agree a settlement then the Ombudsman will start formal action, but up to date they have not had to adjudicate on an actual case.

 

The Adjudicator is on email so you can ask anything you want and they do answer back.

 

They will get back charges + interest on charges + stat 8% interest for you.

 

They told me this on the initial chat priro to the complaint and this is what i have been offered in 2 claims out of 3. I have yet to lodge more claims with them.

 

I keep in touch with the Adjudicator by phone and email and in conversations have been told they consider 8% fair (after discussing it with each other) as it is more than any savings rate i would receive, rather than the 'default interest' i asked for at the unauthorised rate.

 

They raise a letter asking for detailed costings information about the charges from the bank prior to a formal investigation, as a court would do, and rather than provide this to the Ombudsman the bank will make the offer of charges + stat interest as this is as far as the Ombudsman will take it for you.

[gburgess]

I tried FOS for a small C1 claim to see what would happen. C1 offered the difference between my charges and 12 quid, the FOS adjudicator said that this was 42% of my claim and that FOS believed anything over 40% was fair.

I turned it down and I'm now taking it to court. tThis means then that

 

A. Not all cases are settled

 

and

 

B. That FOS advise settleing over 40% offers therefore not all settled cases are 100% money back

[gburgess]

Forgot to mention that FOS get 360 quid from the bank for every complaint handled. This means that as a private company its in their interests to handle as many cases as possible i,e tell everyone that they win for you!

[tifo]

C1 offered the difference between my charges and 12 quid, the FOS adjudicator said that this was 42% of my claim and that FOS believed anything over 40% was fair.

 

Is that 40% of the whole claim with contractual interest at the same rate as the credit card provider or 40% of only the charges?

 

40% of the whole claim with CI would be almost 100% of the charges.

[tifo]

Forgot to mention that FOS get 360 quid from the bank for every complaint handled. This means that as a private company its in their interests to handle as many cases as possible i,e tell everyone that they win for you!

 

They are a private company but their mandate is parliamentary.

 

They don't tell anyone that they will win for you. All the customer operators i have spoken to do not provide any advice at all, they simply take your claim and pass it to an adjudicator.

 

The adjudicator then writes to the bank with the amount you have requested. If the bank disagrees with this then you have to provide evidence.

 

Its just like court, you would not get away with anything without sufficient evidence, as some recent cases have shown. It's the same with the Ombudsman if they have to have a formal investigation then they need both sides of the story. At this stage the bank will pay.

 

But i agree, maybe if the bank offers 40% then they might not take it further but i think each adjudicator has his/her own opinions as a different one deals with each bank.

[gburgess]

ok they might not tell you they will win for you, but simply lie and say that they have won for everyone else.

This has not happened because I wanted 100% and they didnt get it for me and I dont believe im the only one

[podgydad]

Forgot to mention that FOS get 360 quid from the bank for every complaint handled. This means that as a private company its in their interests to handle as many cases as possible i,e tell everyone that they win for you!

 

Only if they launch a formal complaint. The banks normally settle prior to this hence they don't charge the bank anything.

[Josie8]

don't forget that the Fo ruling is only binding on the banks not you. If you're not happy with the amount they get back for you from the bank then you can still proceed with court claim too.

[gburgess]

Only if they launch a formal complaint. The banks normally settle prior to this hence they don't charge the bank anything.

 

The man handleing my case said that they would be charged 360, surely all cases that they mediate count as a complaint. As said before they are a money making organisation so they aint going to do some work and then not get any money

[podgydad]

The man handleing my case said that they would be charged 360, surely all cases that they mediate count as a complaint. As said before they are a money making organisation so they aint going to do some work and then not get any money

 

They do not get any fee unless they raise a formal investigation. When they receive a complaint, they write to the bank and ask the bank for the file on that customers complaint, the bank then choose to settle rather than provide that file. At this point no formal investigation has begun and no charge is made.