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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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help with Citi


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Nope, this was a service to which you agreed so doubtful.

 

If you did not agree to this you will have to study the details of your contract, sometimes payment protection is hidden in the small print.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Can you advise of next step

 

recently rec'd statements and sent of initail letter to citi card only to receive a letter in return post stating

 

On Wed 5th April 2006 the office of fair trading issued a statement regarding the default charges levied on customers by credit issuers for breach of contract such as making late payments or going overlimit.

 

Within the statement the OFT stated that it believes the those charges are too high and has recommended credit card companies review thier position.ect.ect.ect

 

Card issuer had been requested to review and respond by the 31May 2006.

 

Although not party to the OFT investigation, Citi card is aware of the report and we have undertaken to reconsider our charges in light of the OFT statement

 

How do I proceed with this as the 14 days for the initial letter are nearly up. is this a standard fob of letter. and how do I respond

 

Many Thanks

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Hi,

 

From what I've read in these forums the answer to your question is 'Yes'..its a standard letter that you should ignore and proceed as normal with your next letter after the 14 day period is up.

Citi Cards

- S.A.R sent 29/01/07

- Statements received 08/03/07

- First Request sent 12/03/07

- LBA Sent 21/3/07

 

Bank of Scotland

- S.A.R. sent 27/02/07

- Request for Payment sent 14/05/2007

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Got home today to find letter from Courts and request for in formation from Citi. How do i repsond to this plaese help. some of the information is incorrect and not true but hear goes

 

 

  1. The defendant is a credit card company whose registered office is at 87 castle street reading RG1 7DX
  2. The defendant admits that the claimant has accredit card account ( the Agreemant) with the defendant during the relevant period and continues to have an account which is current outstanding balance of £375.13 and which is 10 days in arrears.
  3. The defendant avers that the agreement with the claimant contains terms entitling the defendant to levy default fees and avers that the claimant was aware of and agreed to the same as before entering in to the agreement
  4. The defendant denies that the same are:
  5. A disproportionate penalty and unforeseeable or irrecoverable as penalty charges at common law and / or
  6. In valid under section 4 of the unfair contract terms act 1977 and / or para 8 and sch 2 (1) of the unfair in consumer contract regulations 1999; and /or unreasonable under section 15 of the supply of goods and services act 1982 and,puts the claimants to proof of this by specific reference to the case law relied upon and /or the exact citation of the relevant parts of the section of law and regulations relied upon.
  7. The defendant denies that it has unlawfully debited the claimants account . the defendant avers that the particulars of claim do not particularize the amount claimed nor show the exact dates upon which the amounts claimed arose and puts the claimant to strict proof of this. Particularly as the defendant charges are whole figures, it does not understand how the claimant has arrived at a sum of £1200.
  8. The defendant avers that between 2001 and November 2007 the claimant breached the agreement no fewer than 75 occasions, entitling the defendant to debit £215 to the claimants account . account by way of default fees , as per the terms and conditions of the agreement
  9. The defendant made ex gratia refunds during the same period on various occasions totaling
  10. The claimant is claiming as a money claim a sum equivalent to that which he claims unlawfully debited to his account over the term of the agreement in late payment and overlimit fees.
  11. The claim is entirely based on the recent OFT statement on the alleged unfairness of such default fees
  12. The OFT stated that the level at which the default charges though not the principle of default charging itself was unfair in the context of the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations 1999
  13. It also reported that the charges were in its opinion , a penalty contrary to common law principles of damages for breach of contract.
  14. The defendant has agreed to abide by the OFT report and adopt a lower level of default fees which it has set at the new industry std of £12
  15. Over the lifetime of this account the claimant has set its default charges at £25 and 312.
  16. The defendant has made an ex gratia refund to the claimant of £566 which is the difference between (1) current default fee of 12 and (11) amount at which default fees claimed were charged

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Can you give a little more info. What figure are you claiming back and did you claim interest etc. I agree, the figures do not make sense. Can you claify what exactly you have claimed.

 

Stan comparing the details with what Citi are saying it is totally incorrect in certain parts amount being claimed is £3,287.79 calculating the intrest at 8% = 747.71 total 4035.50

 

gratia refunds of £60 not £450

 

Claim between 2001 and Nov 2007

 

again in the defence they state claimant has rec'd ex gratia of £566 refunded by cheque ( never )

 

In reply to thier defence can you confirm if this is the correct approach :

 

 

In the XXX County Courts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Claim No:

 

This document has been attached for consideration and I believe will bring a speedy end to Litigation. This was devised by the Mercantile Courts for a similar case.

 

 

Between :

 

Claimant

 

And

 

CitiCard Financial – Defendant

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Courts :

 

 

a) a schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for the charge being made.

 

b) Copies of any statement or other documents relied upon as showing that every charge has been made;

 

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with the order the claim will be struck out without

further notice.

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the claimants schedule , stating in respect of each item claimed ;

 

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, produce a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

 

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

 

 

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre- estimate of the defendants loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions ( whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties) all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

 

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre – estimate of the Defendants loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adducted at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

 

e) Any witness statements

 

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the defence will be struck out without further order.

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Stan comparing the details with what Citi are saying it is totally incorrect in certain parts amount being claimed is £3,287.79 calculating the intrest at 8% = 747.71 total 4035.50

 

gratia refunds of £60 not £450

 

Claim between 2001 and Nov 2007

 

again in the defence they state claimant has rec'd ex gratia of £566 refunded by cheque ( never )

 

In reply to thier defence can you confirm if this is the correct approach :

 

 

In the XXX County Courts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Claim No:

 

This document has been attached for consideration and I believe will bring a speedy end to Litigation. This was devised by the Mercantile Courts for a similar case.

 

 

Between :

 

Claimant

 

And

 

CitiCard Financial – Defendant

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Courts :

 

 

a) a schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for the charge being made.

 

b) Copies of any statement or other documents relied upon as showing that every charge has been made;

 

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with the order the claim will be struck out without

further notice.

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the claimants schedule , stating in respect of each item claimed ;

 

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, produce a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

 

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

 

 

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre- estimate of the defendants loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions ( whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties) all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

 

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre – estimate of the Defendants loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adducted at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

 

e) Any witness statements

 

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

Yep this is correct - they have just had that ordered on another case as well.:)

 

You also need to write to Citi pointing out the discrepancies and asking for clarification. Also copy this to the court.

 

Wouldn't bother with this, when it comes to compiling your bundle and statement of truth then bring it up then.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Yep, the draft order was adopted in my case.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi

 

Got a reply from the court after no communication from citi court date for the 12 July Letter states I have 21 to submit documents as follows,

 

What do I need to prepare for this help required

 

The hearing of the claim will take place at 2.00 am on the 12th July 2007 and should take no longer than 30 minutes .

 

 

1. Judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires

filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track

 

2.The claimant shall within 21 days of service of this order send to the Defendant

and to the court :

 

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought , showing the date , amount and reason given ( if any) for the charge being made.

 

b) Copies of any statements or other documents relied upon as showing that every charge has been made

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise.

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials relied upon.

 

If the claimant fails to comply with the order the claim will be struck out without further notice

 

3. The Defendant shall by within 21 days thereafter file and serve a response to

the claimants schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed.

 

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made , produce a

copy of the Contractual document relied upon.

 

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not.

 

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the defendants loss incurred by the claimant’s actions ( whether or not such action is treated as a breach of the contract between the parties) all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of loss and all evidence to b adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with this matter was.

 

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the defendants loss occurred by the claimants actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

e) Any witness statements

 

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal material to be relied upon

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this Order the defence will be struck out without further notice.

 

 

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

Worried about what to do, Help greatly needed.

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Hi

 

Got a reply from the court after no communication from citi court date for the 12 July Letter states I have 21 to submit documents as follows,

 

What do I need to prepare for this help required

 

The hearing of the claim will take place at 2.00 am on the 12th July 2007 and should take no longer than 30 minutes .

 

 

1. Judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires

filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track

 

2.The claimant shall within 21 days of service of this order send to the Defendant

and to the court :

 

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought , showing the date , amount and reason given ( if any) for the charge being made.

 

b) Copies of any statements or other documents relied upon as showing that every charge has been made

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise.

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials relied upon.

 

If the claimant fails to comply with the order the claim will be struck out without further notice

 

3. The Defendant shall by within 21 days thereafter file and serve a response to

the claimants schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed.

 

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made , produce a

copy of the Contractual document relied upon.

 

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not.

 

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the defendants loss incurred by the claimant’s actions ( whether or not such action is treated as a breach of the contract between the parties) all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of loss and all evidence to b adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with this matter was.

 

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the defendants loss occurred by the claimants actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

e) Any witness statements

 

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal material to be relied upon

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this Order the defence will be struck out without further notice.

 

 

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

Worried about what to do, Help greatly needed.

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mymoney001

 

Excellent news!

 

Post #47 may help ...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionnaires-3.html

 

Well done, and good luck!

 

T.

"Weasel (n): any person or group that operates in that vast grey area between good ethical behaviour and the sort of activities that might send you to jail".

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a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought , showing the date , amount and reason given ( if any) for the charge being made.

 

This is a schedule of charges, the same as you have already sent to citi

 

b) Copies of any statements or other documents relied upon as showing that every charge has been made

 

This is a set of statements which show the charges on them

 

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise.

 

This is the rest of the court bundle - have a look in the templates libraray Basic Court Bundle

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials relied upon.

 

This is cases won (ie me, bongobaz, gizmo even though they haven't paid out yet!) plus anything else you feel is necessary for your case.

 

Copy of it all to the court, copy of it all to Citi

 

HTH

Abbey - Claim 1

full hearing 22 Feb 07 - Settled in full £710 :D

Abbey (Claim 2)

full hearing 22 Feb 07- Settled in full £4000 :D

Abbey (Claim 3)

Court date 27 June -

Capital One (claim 1)

£467 Settled in full 20 Sep :D

Capital One (claim 2)

£72 refunded 19 Aug :-D

Associates (Citicards)

claim 8 Aug/judgment by default 30 Aug/set aside hearing 9 Oct/Stay denied, ordered by Judge to reveal breakdown of charges andfull hearing 24 May/FULL DISCLOSURE ORDERED BY 8 MARCH/JUDGE TO STRIKE OUT DEFENCE AS NON-COMPLIANCE/DEFENCE STRUCK OUT PAYMENT IN FULL REQUIRED IN 14 DAYS

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