Fees from debt collector - advise please?

[redsonja]

Hi all,

Hoping someone can help me.

My fiance had a LLoyds account that got in a right state due to all their charges (I have sent a SAR for this account), the account then got passed to BLS collections and he had to pay a little under £3,000 to completely clear the debt. This obviously included BLS charges.

 

My question is....

 

If the charges by the bank were unlawful and they then referred the account to debt collectors, who in turn added their costs, is there any way to try and get the debt collector costs back?

 

Look forward to any replies

Thanks

[lookinforinfo]

Your fiance did not have a contract with BLS, so they had no right to charge

him fees-they get paid by the bank. Write to BLS asking for proof of their

right to charge you. If they cannot justify the charges, give them the choice

of repaying them or going to Court. And you could add, that unless

payment is made speedily, you will contact the OFT to complain

that the charges are discouraged by the OFT and querying whether

BLS are fit and proper persons to hold a Consumer Credit licence.

[sarahpp]

lookinforinfo is quite right. The OFT guidelines state that there has to be a provision in the original contract for DCA charges. Even if your original agreement did contain such a provision (which is unlikely) any charges which are subsequently added must be reasonable and in proportion to the main debt.

[redsonja]

I have asked Lloyds for balance that was referred to BLS etc but they have not given me any info. I will write to BLS but my partner did call them and they were useless.

Next stage with Barclays is court...do you think I should get the amount of costs sorted 1st with BLS before I file for court?

What do people think?

[redsonja]

anyone out there?

[lookinforinfo]

Sonja, you need to do things in writing, so that you can show the Court

that you have done all you could to resolve the matter without legal action.

Once you get the sar from the bank, you will know how much the debt was

when passed to BLS. Unless they have incurred Court costs, then the debt should not have risen.

In the meantime[pending the sar response] you could send a CCA request to

BLS in which they might include what charges they have made,

 

In addition, you could write to your bank, stating that you believe BLS have added unlawful charges to your account and are refusing to state what they

have charged for. You are holding the bank equally responsible for the

breach, and you will complain to Trading Standards that neither

company is fit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence. And see if your bank can

get BLS to retract their fees.

[redsonja]

hi info, thanks for coming back to me. We had the SAR back from LLoyds but it doesnt give any balances, just lists the charges and interest so we we're still none the wiser.

[redsonja]

Hi, me again...

After going through all of his paperwork, I have just discovered that the amount that went to BLS was in fact for a loan he defaulted on.

What is the procedure with this now as I am out of my depth her a bit. Should I send a SAR to bank/BLS etc?

Thanks in advance for any help

[lookinforinfo]

The sar you sent to the bank should have included everything they had on

his name, so there is no point in asking them again. However if you know their is info that has not been included, you can write back and ask for it by

pointing out that they have not yet fulfilled the requirements of the sar.

You would normally senda CCA request to BLS for more details, but as the debt has been cleared you cannot do that.

 

You will just have to write to them asking for a breakdown of the charges they added to your account. If they fail to comply, write to your local Trading Standards office as BLS should not have added their own charges, unless it was interest.

[redsonja]

Thanks again lookin.

I didnt put the loan number on the SAR, does that matter? I have been asking for info from them (when I thought it was the account referred) and so far they have completely ignored my request on info for BLS. Maybe it was because I didnt put a loan account number in. Im at court stage for the bank charges so do you think it would be ok to file for court for the bank account and do the loan separate?

Thanks in advance.

[dannyboy660]

Excuse me for poking my nose in, and maybe I'm stating the obvious but BLS Collections is part of Lloyds Tsb, they are the same thing.

 

Does this have any bearing on things??

[lookinforinfo]

When you send an sar it covers ALL your accounts with them and all records

they have on you.

[dannyboy660]

I think LTSB will treat BLS as a separate company for the purposes of S.A.R, and vice versa. Unfortunately it's a huge loophole that many don't seem to be aware of. LTSB pass the debt to BLS on the pretence they are a separate company and many people will pay up, plus interest and charges unaware they are in fact paying LTSB anyway, just under a different name.

 

What a fantastic little moneyspinner!!! If you get your magnifying glass out and go over a BLS letter in detail somewhere in the small print will be cleverly hidden "BLS Collections is a trading name of Lloyds TSB" which makes it all perfectly legal because they have 'told' you, that they are one and the same. My old friends Lowell alerted me to this fact with their alter ego 'Hamptons Legal'. Legal my arsenal.

 

Lloyds have been in this game a very, very long time and need to be approached with caution. If you SAR both, you'll get a reply from both - but if you CCA both, it stands to reason that one or the other will come up with the paperwork and unfortunately will have been put on alert......unless they don't have it at all, but that's the risk you have to take with Lloyds.

 

All the best.

[redsonja]

Bloody hell it does too! Right at the bottom of the BLS letter it says "a trading name of Lloyds"

 

So does that mean they are allowed to make charges then when it goes to BLS? Hmnnnn Im not sure what the best way is to tackle this. Just some info to start on any charges would be bloody good.

 

Should I write to Lloyds saying they havent given me all info on all accounts (even though I never included the loan number) or should I send a SAR to BLS then?

 

Thanks both for your help with this.

[dannyboy660]

Lloyds are a very tricky bunch.

 

Unlike many lenders who pass the debt briefly to an in-house collector, then sell it outright to a purchaser for the tax relief, Lloyds pass it to a 'separate company' to do the deed. This 'separate company' does in fact belong to Lloyds anyway (as you now know).

 

This company will hang on to the bitter end to squeeze every last penny out of you for the debt, and interest and charges if they can get away with it, without involving the purchase market or any outsiders. This is old fashioned debt collection at it's best/worst/fairest depending on your point of view. Pure profit for Lloyds.

 

CCA'ing Lloyds or BLS is likely to produce the necessary documents for them to proceed a step further, should they want to, unless the docs don't exist anymore. That's the gamble. If they do sell it to a purchaser a very quick CCA to the new 'owner' may catch them out, but unfortunately they will almost certainly have guessed your intentions by now.

 

I don't really know what to say, but perhaps the next step would be to identify the charges or interest by Lloyds and BLS separately, then question them on the legality of it, knowing they are the same company and effectively charging you twice....?????.

 

It's a good bargaining tool, but I really don't know how things would pan out if you take that route. Sorry for putting a bit of a damper on things.....but forewarned is fore..wassisname..and least you can be prepared and plan your next step.

 

All the best.

[dannyboy660]

After having a look at charges etc which have questionable legality, if things are in your favour you could drop obvious hints that you are aware they have effectively been charging you twice, and you are prepared to let the matter go to court to get it resolved. That will give them something to think about, and put them on the offensive to try and shout you down. They don't want to go to court and kill the goose.

 

Depending on the circumstances, (balance, charges, interest,) and using your own judgment, it may be possible to get them into a position where they would let it go. "It wouldn't look too good for Lloyds if this became public knowledge, would it??"

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Letter K with a few alterations might do the trick.

 

They will make it very uncomfortable for you, that's guaranteed, but it just might be possible.........

 

The decision is entirely yours and I'm just bouncing an idea.

[redsonja]

Wow Dannyboy, I appreciate all your help with this. The prob I have to be honest is that I dont know what they charged. My other half defaulted on a loan he had with them because they initially put a bank charge in for a small amount of going over his overdraft. At the time he could only just live on his weekly income so every month he ended up incurring fees on his bank account which meant there was no money to pay the £92 loan repayment. This is when they passed it to BLS. I only have a handful of letters from BLS so I have no idea if he incurred charges. There is also a separate issue with this where he had PPI on the loan too (something else I need to get my head round at some time in case I can claim it back). So I'm not sure what the next step should be.

1 - Complain to LLoyds that they have not fulfilled SAR (even though I never put the loan number on)

2 - Send another SAR to Lloyds for all info on the loan

3 - File at court for the penalty charges on the bank account and then deal with Loan separate.

 

If it was my claim it would be a little easier as I would remember the situation but because its my partners Im a little blind to what happened...and he has the memory span of a goldfish so he's no help lol

[lookinforinfo]

Sonja, you should write and point out that they still have not fulfilled the

requirements of your sar. Advise them that you will complain to Trading Standards and in Court also should the information not be forthcoming. [in

court your argument would be that you are unable to ascertain the true amount of charges unlawfully applied without all the data].

That being said, most charges are taken from your current account-though you

should have received the loan details-perhaps they just missed them when

they checked the account details.

[dannyboy660]

I'll second that. Seems like a logical step.