provident problem

[dizzydeedee]

Hi

I'm new to this site, but i found it by doing a search for the information i required so i hope someone out there can really help me.

 

In 2004, I took out a personal loan with Provident, but when I moved for personal reasons, i didn't make my payments. Then in June 2006, I had a knock on my door from an agent for Moorcroft Debt Recovery. I argued with this guy that they should have wrote to me, to which he said they didnt have my address, so I was curious as to how he had found it, as very limited people knew where I had moved to. He demanded I came to a payment arrangement, which i did, of £50 per month. I have 2 small children, so after the second month I dropped my payment to £30 per month.

 

On thursday of last week, I contacted moorcroft to see if they could tell me what I needed to do with regards to a credit agreement being sent to me. They told me I had to ask the agent as it was now in the home collections department. So, I asked him and he said it was nothing to do with him, and basically, as I had already admitted having this debt it was tough. He said even if I contacted the c.a.b they wouldn't listen, and just send the bailifs round as they didn't need a court order to do so, and it would add £200 to my debt just for them knocking on my door even if I wasn't in. I wasn't disputing this was my debt, but its the amount of it I can't understand. Is he right in what he says? He is due to come to my house again next week and I feel very intimidated by him, but not only that, I am not sure I should be paying back the amount he says. What can I do? I am worried that he will send the bailifs round as he said he would and I will have my goods removed to pay for this in front of my kids. I would really appreciate any advice.

 

Thanks

[gizmo111]

Hi,

 

To start with he cannot send the baliffs around without a court order. If he comes to your house you do not have to acknowkefdge his presence or deal with him.

 

Have a look through the debt and baliffs forum and get an idea of how these people operate. send a CCA request to Provident. If you cannot afford what you are paying then don't pay it - only pay what you can afford. Have you any idea what you think the amount of this debt is?

[dizzydeedee]

I thought i only owed 400 but this guy has had me paying for 750. He told me they didnt need a court order. What if provident cant provide me with the CCA i signed, and does it have to be signed by me? Or can they just send a normal copy of it that I would have signed?

[gizmo111]

It has to be signed by you or the debt is unenforceable. How much have you paid so far and how much did you borrow.

I expect Moorcroft have added charges which you can claim back.

Can you afford what you are paying at present?

[dizzydeedee]

Not really but it was to keep the guy from sending the bailifs round, as i was that worked up I had to take his word for it. Does it matter that its a home collection agent for moorcroft?

[gizmo111]

No they stil lhave no rights on your property.

Work out waht you can afford to pay them and write them a letter saying this. Tomoorow I will post a letter here that you can send to them about doorstep debt collecting - unless anyone gets here first.

See if you can work out how much you ahve paid so far. No worries if you can't.

These peopel are bullies and you don;t have to put up with it.

 

Night for now

[Turnaround]

This is awful. And Gizmo is correct.

 

Include this with your CCA to Moorcroft and it will stop them calling.

 

"There is an implied licence under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission, the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Take note that I revoke licence under Common Law for you or your representatives to visit me at my property, and if you do will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. If you persisted in your threat, I will obtain an injunction."

 

It’s a little gem passed on by a company lawyer, and works a treat……

 

[Guest Battleaxe]

Provident are the very people the Credit Unions have in their sights. they are the pariahs of the Loan Companies and with interest rates of over 117% pa, no wonder people can't cope. that aside, Moorcroft are trying to intimidate you and as the others said, what they are telling is incorrect. Gizmo will put you right and if you get the wobbles with these bullies just post to the board and one of us will h old your hand.

 

If you live in Bedford come and see us at Credit Union. We are not touting for business, just showing people other options other banks and loan sharks.

[Donel261]

They cannot send bailiffs to your house without a court order, if someone does knock at your door demanding money ask to see the court order and if they cant provide it call the police. Do not let anyone into your house.

 

Go to the Citizens Advice Bureau, Provident are well known for not wanting the CAB involved... they have even asked people to sign agreements saying they wont go to the CAB if they have repayment problems (obviously not enforcable).... take anything they say to you with a pinch of salt.... they will lie and lie, but you know your rights.

 

Certainly do not pay them £50 a month if its leaving you skint and you dispute the debt. Stop payments or pay a £5 a month. If they argue this tell them to feck off, in order to get a court order (to allow bailiffs to come) they have to get a county court judgement, based on your income when you get the letter from the court you can state you dispute the debt and furthermore can only afford £5 a month. (not that it would get that far but the court would accept it and provident would have to live with it, they couldnt send a bailiff unless you didnt make the payment of £5 as you agreed you would)

 

Also post off the letter in the templates library stating "i do not awknowledge the debt... please supply orginal credit agreement etc"

 

And send them the letter on harrassment, cease from sending people to your door..... etc

 

Good luck, dont worry about these cowboys they dont have a leg to stand on they just try and scare you.

 

 

Letter 1 (write to provident and include the text below, with a postal order for £1)

 

Also include that you are seeking the advice of the citizens advice bureau and after assessing your finances andyou will no longer be paying £50 per month. You will pay £5 until further notice. You understand that they may not feel this acceptable in which case advise them they are more than welcome to bring the matter to the county court where you will make the same offer.

 

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

[elizabeth1]

Dizzy - good luck with this - these people are slimey at Provident they really do make life horrid. I had a loan with them years ago when hubby was made redundant we were in the process of remortgaging so we used it as a quick fix and paid the loan off after a few weeks (rather than paying over the longer weekly terms) and they made us pay everything back including all the interest for the whole term of the loan and then they sent the man around with 25 quid to give us as the loan had been settled early. We'd paid hundreds of pound in interest and never saw any of it back.

 

I might tackle these people soon as I am sure we should never have had to pay the whole amount of interest.

 

But you have good advice here and hopefully you'll get them off your back!! Don't let these people bully you into paying what you can't afford etc.. I shall watch with interest and do hope you do well with this!!

[dizzydeedee]

can they charge me more if they provide the cca?

[Guest Battleaxe]

They might provide the Credit Agreement free of charge but to be on the safe side send a request for the Credit Agreement with a £1.00 crossed postal order (total cost £1.45) and don't forget to send it recorded delivery.

[gizmo111]

can they charge me more if they provide the cca?

 

No dizzy they can't - they can charge you what you owe - any anything it has cost them in charges - certainly not waht they have added - I am sorry I haven't been bout today but I will do lettere for you tomorow.

 

And I repeat only offer them what you can afford per month - if it is a £1 then that is all they will get.

[Guest The Terminator]

Knowing what this bunch of monkeys charge in interest has nobody tried to take them to court ie "extortinate credit bargin" as defind under the cca.

[Boobaby]

Knowing what this bunch of monkeys charge in interest has nobody tried to take them to court ie "extortinate credit bargin" as defind under the cca.

 

Is this possible? I thought someone would have taken on these leaches long before now if that was the case?

Boo

[elizabeth1]

I'd like to see someone tackle this bunch too!!

 

I often wonder whether the loan I had with them years ago whether they ought to have made me pay off the whole loan balance including all the interest My loan was 500 pound over 49 weeks repayments - they took 333 interest off me - I settled the whole thing in week 17 but they still charged me all of it. NASTY??

[Boobaby]

I'd like to see someone tackle this bunch too!!

 

I often wonder whether the load I had with them years ago whether they ought to have made me pay off the whole loan balance including all the interest My loan was 500 pound over 49 weeks repayments - they took 333 interest off me - I settled the whole thing in week 17 but they still charged me all of it. NASTY??

 

Why is it that they are so well known for targetting the less well off in society, charging extortionate rates of interest and providing what they call quick solutions, yet they are still trading? I always, always advice people to contact their local Credit Union. The only problem is that they are unable to provide a quick loan but start saving with them as you never know when you might need that money. That's the one and only thing Provident have on their side - speed!!

[elizabeth1]

Boobaby - that's exactly right "speed" is the key thing on their side.

 

With the credit unions you have to save with them for a period of time before they even look at loans for you etc.. - not everyone has time to wait?? Also with the credit unions they loan a percentage of what a person saved over a period of time etc.. - so perhaps not so accessible?

 

Maybe over time something will be done about Provident and they have been hacking people off for decades? Their interest rates are really bad and so is their credit card from what I read on another thread - but while Banks are allowed to "cherry pick" their customers etc.. not everyone can get a bank loan which is where Provident corners this market of low income customers etc.. - because people struggle they get away with their unfair terms and conditions?

[fairclaire]

I totally agree. These lot are parasites. I also had to resort to borrowing money from them in sheer desperation.

 

Luckily in the end a friend lent me the money to pay the whole lot off and I paid them off instead. I also got a paltry sum for repaying earlier.

 

Another company to beware of who operate in the same way is Greenwoods. They may well both be part of the same group (their forms and payment books are very similar).

 

I totally symathise with anyone who has the mis-fortune to resort to dealing with companies like this. They abuse people who have every other door slammed in their face and borrow only enough money to do a weekly shop....only to spend best part of a year paying it back.

 

Their agents are also very good at trying to convince you to top up your loan after you've paid half of it...sucking you in even further. To someone who is totally desperate, a guy standing there offering you a few hundred quid on the spot for nothing more than a signature is too tempting.

 

It was a big weight off my shoulders to get rid of that guy knocking on my door every friday t time. And god willing I will never end up in such a dire position again, but even if I did I would never consider it...under any! circumstances

[elizabeth1]

Clare, I was gutted when I wanted to pay mine off and they said I had to clear whole balance then they'd refund "early settlement" figure to me - I was at work and the collections guy came weeks later and put a few quid in my letter box and no explanation!! I thought I'd save loads by paying up so early ha ha we live and learn?

 

It is a shame as everyone needs a loan at some point - and this company just takes the micky - I constantly get postal mailshots for credit cards off them and flyers offering me a loan etc.. but I'd rather go without. It's the way the collector pretends to be a friend to people I have seen some people in real misery cause they had to keep using this company for loans.

 

It's a shame the Govt don't do something to make the banks do more to help the "lesser paid" population as they are the ones who need the help?

often like we can read here in many threads - people don't get into these situations financially from choice - it's life circumstances that often triggers problems (can be illness, redundancy, divorce and many more problems) and the banks do abuse with charges etc.. to worsen people's problems - surely someday something has to be done to make a "fairer banking system" for the less well off?

 

You'd think in this day and age that Banks and Loan companies would have a more "human touch" where each individual could be considered upon their own merits and be offered services appropriately - rather than the batching and cherry picking of customers that goes on now.

 

But then I guess that would be the day that PIGS FLY??

[Guest Battleaxe]

Provident never show their face in a more 'affluent' area. They target the low income areas, knowing that they have the people in their clutches and that the people are intimidated into not doing anything about 'usury'. These pariahs count on people not knowing their rights.

 

I was shocked when handed the flyer advertising 117% interest and what the final cost would be to the applicant.

 

yes you do have to save with the Credit Union, but as they gain popularity, they will become like they are in Australia and new Zealand, where you can get a loan immediately. we only ever borrowed through the credit unions back home. The only back loan was the mortgage. The credit union even had credit cards at a far cheaper rate than the banks. It will be years before credit unions get to that stage over here, but educating people about laoinn xharks and the high interest rates and what APR means, I had never heard that term until I arrived in England and was only used to a fixed term interest rate, so all what has happened to us has occurred through ignorance and complacency, something had we been more astute we could have avoided. The other thing I loovve is how some contract have the word variable in such small print. We discovered that too late also.

 

This is why I work voluntarily at the Credit Credit. To help others avoid the mistakes I made. I am well educated, yet fell into the traps of the English Banking Industry, something which never has happened to us before. I am not ashamed to admit my ignorance of the banking and loan system over here. I have certainly rectified that in a few short months and I question everything I am now told by banks and I put lines through T & C's, send them back and guess what, the banks never read what I have done. If anything ever goes sour again, I have a fall back position by keeping copies of the altered T & C's and have them witnessed and signed on the same date I have signed the contract.

 

Elizabeth 1, if enough of us are who are like minded, keep hammering on about the banks helping the disadvantaged. it might happen and your pigs will stop flying.

[elizabeth1]

Battleaxe, I see exactly where you are coming from with your comments - like yourself I have made mistakes because I didn't ask enough questions back when I took my CCards out - like a fool I always thought the insurances would help me in difficulties only to find the wool was pulled over my eyes and there were many "ineligible" reasons I'd not be able to claim for help to keep up payments on such accounts - but hey we live and learn?

 

The credit Unions are definitely the people within communities to help people in the less affluent areas - hopefully this is an area that will grow and help the many that need lower cost loans and help with money etc.. I certainly do hope they continue to grow and help those that need help to rid communities of companies like the one we are discussing here who simply take advantage of those less well off - as you say they concentrate on the less advantaged areas.

 

Strange things seem to have happened here in the UK where the very places that could help people like the CAB - funding was lessened / withdrawn in some areas meaning that the already reduced hours of opening were cut back - in my own area there were CAB offices closed and others did less hours than they were doing etc.. - this meant that there was less help within an already very rural area.

 

We see in newspapers regularly that it is estimated that the number of IVA's, Bankruptcies, Debts etc.. is expected to increase this year (papers were full of articles to this effect only last week for New Year) - Big worry as to where people will go for help? Whilst CAG and such forums are an excellent source of help for many of us - not everyone will have access to computers or be able to use a computer to participate and get advice in such places.

 

My own thoughts are that the Gov't and say the Lotteries could do a lot more to enhance the services offered within communities to help people facing problems and educate the public about money (maybe the Banks could donate their wealthy profits to such causes - then they'd have less customers likely to default etc..??) lots of places where help could come from? Certainly within the Banks surely they'd reap the benefits of such investment in that their customers would be better educated and less likely to have problems if they were better educated regarding money issues? The Banks could really build relationships with the communities they operate within? (OK maybe I just need coffee??)

 

Battleaxe I am like you I see the problems and know there are solutions - I wish with all my heart that I could be the one with a magic wand to change it all - but like we know the help has to come from further up than us!! Seems we have Credit Unions given to communites in one hand - the CAB taken away with the other??

[Boobaby]

Battleaxe, I see exactly where you are coming from with your comments - like yourself I have made mistakes because I didn't ask enough questions back when I took my CCards out - like a fool I always thought the insurances would help me in difficulties only to find the wool was pulled over my eyes and there were many "ineligible" reasons I'd not be able to claim for help to keep up payments on such accounts - but hey we live and learn?

 

The credit Unions are definitely the people within communities to help people in the less affluent areas - hopefully this is an area that will grow and help the many that need lower cost loans and help with money etc.. I certainly do hope they continue to grow and help those that need help to rid communities of companies like the one we are discussing here who simply take advantage of those less well off - as you say they concentrate on the less advantaged areas.

 

Strange things seem to have happened here in the UK where the very places that could help people like the CAB - funding was lessened / withdrawn in some areas meaning that the already reduced hours of opening were cut back - in my own area there were CAB offices closed and others did less hours than they were doing etc.. - this meant that there was less help within an already very rural area.

 

We see in newspapers regularly that it is estimated that the number of IVA's, Bankruptcies, Debts etc.. is expected to increase this year (papers were full of articles to this effect only last week for New Year) - Big worry as to where people will go for help? Whilst CAG and such forums are an excellent source of help for many of us - not everyone will have access to computers or be able to use a computer to participate and get advice in such places.

 

My own thoughts are that the Gov't and say the Lotteries could do a lot more to enhance the services offered within communities to help people facing problems and educate the public about money (maybe the Banks could donate their wealthy profits to such causes - then they'd have less customers likely to default etc..??) lots of places where help could come from? Certainly within the Banks surely they'd reap the benefits of such investment in that their customers would be better educated and less likely to have problems if they were better educated regarding money issues? The Banks could really build relationships with the communities they operate within? (OK maybe I just need coffee??)

 

Battleaxe I am like you I see the problems and know there are solutions - I wish with all my heart that I could be the one with a magic wand to change it all - but like we know the help has to come from further up than us!! Seems we have Credit Unions given to communites in one hand - the CAB taken away with the other??

 

I agree with everything said and like you I wish I had the same wand, Never will I make the mistakes I made previously and where possible I try and advise others not to use Provident and the like. I also give them the local Credit Unions' numbers.

Battleaxe - this Government so needs to wake up, step in and act where Loan **arks are concerned and surely cap the rate of interest these leaches are able to charge...

Boo