Received wrong goods, where do i stand?

[dalemiles]

Hi there,

 

This is my first time posting on this forum. I was hoping some of the members here could help my dilema.

 

I placed an order with an online retailer, and a few days later recieved a packed address in my name. Inside there was no paper work, nothing stating where it came from, no invoice, no credit card receipt. But it was something I had not ordered.

 

So the day after ive recieved this package is get an email:

******

Due to a Parcelforce error, 3 packages that left on Tuesday have been

misrouted.

 

Your parcel is in Scotland and you have a parcel due for Devon.

Please can you call me to confirm you have the parcel. I want you to reseal

it, and I will get it collected tomorrow.

 

Please call me on ***********

 

Best regards

****

Great at least i now know where this package came from, But after being told by a friend of mine i have a right to keep this, i got confused, because surley this is wrong, even if only morally.

 

He pointed to towards:

Buying goods - your rights

 

Because the sale took place online, this is covered by distance selling, it clearly states that i have the right to keep or dispose of goodsthat i have not ordered. And if the retailer tries to charge me i dont have to pay.

 

So i replied to thier email with thefollow:

Sorry for the late reply, work has been hectic last couple of days.

First i would like to point out that your first email came across a bit

abrupt, telling me "I want you to reseal it" could have been reworded a bit

better to "I would like you to reseal it, and if its no problem to you i will

get somebody out to collect it tomorrow" Which unfortunately is a problem due to

my work commitments.

I'm glad I've found out where this parcel came from, because there was nothing on

the box other than my name and address scribbled on the front in pen. Inside

there was no invoice, no credit card receipt, nothing indicating who the parcel

should have gone to, very odd, this is the first parcel i have EVER received

from a company on-line that has not included this.

I would like you to take the time to visit:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/n6w/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_good

s_your_rights.htm#distance_selling

these key parts are the points id like to bring to your attention;

"If you buy goods from a trader without having face-to-face contact with them,

this is known as distance selling. Examples of distance sales include goods

that are bought:

electronically through the internet, e-mail or digital television"

and;

"Other additional rights you have when you make a distance sale include the

right:

to keep or dispose of any goods you receive but have not ordered. If a seller

demands payment for goods you haven't ordered, you don't have to pay for them

or return them."

I'm still entitled to receive my original order.

Luckily the error was in Parcel force, so you will be able to claim

compensation for the loss of your product.

 

to which their reply:

Three parcels were taken on Tuesday. all three went to the wrong location and are in the process of being swapped.

Your ***** is en route to you and I expect the parcel you have to be handed back to the courier. Upon collection it too can be sent to it's rightful owner. Ironically the guy is less than 20 miles from you and wanted to collect it in person, but I refused to give your details to him as that would be a breach of your privacy.

Please confirm that the parcel will be returned to the courier and I in turn will ensure that all my customers private details remain just that, private.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Seeing this as a threat i followed up with the next email:

Considering my parcel was heading for Devon, i fail to see how the recipients address is only 20miles from me, Devon is a lot further according the maps of Britain.

 

I can see how parcels that come with no receipts or invoices are unable to get where they are going. If parcel force have made this error, may I suggest changing to a more reliable carrier. which is odd, because last time i used parcel force I had to write the address on the parcel myself personally.

 

You are correct in refusing to give my details to the gentleman 20 miles from me, as that would be a break of my privacy, and if some one did turn up at our door asking for the order how would I know he was the intended recipient seeing there was no invoice in the package, just my name and address.

 

I do hope this last part isn't a threat, because breaking the data protection act is a big no no, where as i am operating within my rights. Especially when your website states:

 

“We respect your privacy!

Any and all the information collected on this site will be kept strictly confidential and will not be sold, reused, rented, disclosed, or loaned!

Any information you provide will be held with the utmost care and will not be used in ways that you have not consented to.”

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

to their reply:

Origininally I thought it was the Devon customer. After Parcelforce confirmed where all the parcels actually went, the customer is actually in Thetford.

 

This is my final time of politely asking for the return of the mis-delivered parcel.

Do you intend returning the wrongly addressed parcel or not.

and again my reply:

Politely?

 

Each email you have sent has not been polite, it has been abrupt, and the last has been some what threatening, I do wonder how trading standards would feel if i were to forward our communications on to them, with you openly threatening me by releasing my personal details.

 

I am well within my rights to keep the parcel, you have been changing the facts as you go along,

 

First of all there are 3 parcels misrouted, one gone to norwich, one devon and other scotland, now your telling me the parcel i recieved address to me, was due for thetford, and this is all parcel forces mistake, which is unbelievable due to the fact that you label your parcels not parcel force, so from the start you have lied.

 

 

their reply:

Clearly *** you have no intention of returning the parcel.

 

I will now take whatever action is necessary to recover my lawful goods. Please feel free to quote trading standards, and Distance Selling legislation and even Data Protection Laws. I have made no attempt to solicit money from you for a mis-directed parcel, merely to attempt it’s recovery and correct an administrative error.

 

You on the other hand think you are entilteld to a freebie.

 

Good luck with your point of view.

 

In the next few days you will be hearing from the rightful owner of the goods, the Police and lastly a court summons.

 

I gave you three chances to carry out a simple exchange but you want to behave like some barrack room lawyer. I am sure those skills will be very helpful when the time comes.

 

Good day to you.

My reply:

So if im going to be hearing from the rightfull owner, your telling me your going to release my private data to them, how else are they going to receive it, by doing this you will be breaking the law and you, yourself will be reported.

 

What charges will the police be charging me with? accepting goods in my name?

 

Im becoming tired of your threats, at no point have you tried to be reasonable. Just demanding.

 

You are correct in that you have not tried to solicit money from me, but if you read CAB you will see that i have the right "to keep or dispose of any goods you receive but have not ordered."

 

I am getting confused, your now saying its an administrative error? Not Parcel Force?

 

Sorry for the quoting of the emails but i though it would be the best way to show the situation, here they have threatened me, whilst i have been working to the best of my knowledge to my rights.

 

Im curious to know from other people that have better knowledge in this area if they could help me and tell me where do i stand.

 

I would muchly appreciate it.

 

[buzby]

Oh dear. This is a case of a simple error spiralling out of control. You friend is incorrect, you cannot keep the goods as they are not yours - they were delivered in error and it is reasonable to expect that the correct goods are delivered to you with all speed.

 

I'm afraid there are some people who are abrupt by nature and have no ability to view the problem from the other side, you might have gone off on holiday or business and not been able to be arround for the collection and swap.

 

It might be better to take a breather and start again - an error was made, you'd like the good you ordered, say that you cannot hang around to await collection, but you'll be hapopy to post the item back as long as your costs are met.

[dalemiles]

Thanks for your reply,

 

So im confused, according to the CAB website im within my rights to keep it.

 

Ive recently recieved an email from his with the PDF form of the Small Claims court form, where hes filled in the details of his claim, hes said in it that ive received my original goods, but i have not? so surley he is lying to the court system as well?

 

Im really confused, and dont know where i stand

[buzby]

No the CAB is referring to unsolicited goods, the goods you received were NOT unsolicited, you bought a product and they shipped the wrong item. You say the retailer says the item was misdelivered by Parcelforce - I think they just putr the wrong labels on the packets and are trying to blame someone else. So, whilst you're not likley to shop with them again (with that attidude) I'm sure you'd be happier with what you originally ordered, and the unwanted stuff returned?

[dalemiles]

the CAB website doesnt mention unsolicited goods,

 

read:

Buying goods - your rights

 

-electronically through the internet, e-mail or digital television

my right:

-to keep or dispose of any goods you receive but have not ordered. If a seller demands payment for goods you haven't ordered, you don't have to pay for them or return them.

 

that says to me, if i recieve goods from them i didnt order i can do as i wish.

 

The whole attitude from them i think has been bad, i lost my moral grounds to return the parcel the second they threatened me. ive tried my best to be formal with my replys, but threatening me with disclosing my personal details which is against the data protection act shouldnt just be ignored surley.

 

As far as im aware unsolicited goods would be for example from some one i hadnt ordered from, and randomly turned up in the post. where as i did place an order with this company. so these are not unsolicited goods, but are goods which i did not order, which the CAB website states that i can keep or dispose of, and If they did try to make me pay they couldnt. Now i know moraly its wrong, but my morals are begining to wear thin with them and im not normaly like this, this is completly out of character of me. but im seriously not happy with the way they have treated me, their customer service is poor.

[Isiris]

While the specifics of the CAB site are used as a broad stroke approach, if you actually look at the DTI guidelines, you will see that what you are trying to quote is the Inertia Selling (Regulation 24).

 

This was in a way a response to when CD clubs used to send you a CD and if you didnt return it, they billed you as acceptance.

 

While I appreciate that you may think you are entitled to this, Im sorry but you are not. While the blokes email may have been better drafted in the first instance, you then replied saying you were keeping the product. We do not know the value of the article but whatever it is, its still his property.

 

I do agree though that he is treading on thin Ice saying he is going to reveal your address to someone else as this would be an offence undee the DPA.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1E6F3C94-8BB0-4374-A65B-6281E030C3C9/0/oft698.pdf

 

 

Look at page 33 of 48

[blacksheep1979]

Wow yet another person letting a simple mistake spiral out of control and trying to bend legislation to their benefit. To the op - morally do you think you should be allowed to keep these goods (let alone legally)? Yes the email from the seller may have been abrupt, but is it worth the hassle of extra legal fees and or a visit from the police just to be spoken to a little nicer? You cannot (as pointed out) keep or dispose of these goods and I'd personally get in touch with the retailer as quickly as possible unless you want court action and possibly a criminal case for theft.

[Isiris]

Wow yet another person letting a simple mistake spiral out of control and trying to bend legislation to their benefit.

 

BS

I think this is the second time we have both posted on a thread where this has been the case. There does seem to be a tendancy to come onto this site and try and find a way to just take things the the ridicculous extreme. I think the other thread was someone who had been stopped for alledgedly shoplifting, said he wanted an appology, got one, then basically wanted the keys to the store as compensation (Not exactly but you know what I mean)

 

While the OP may believe the regs are how they interpret them, I do feel that to think something that you have had delivered incorrectly should be yours whatever the circumstances, is not really in the spitrit of what this site is all about.

[Boobaby]

Wow yet another person letting a simple mistake spiral out of control and trying to bend legislation to their benefit. To the op - morally do you think you should be allowed to keep these goods (let alone legally)? Yes the email from the seller may have been abrupt, but is it worth the hassle of extra legal fees and or a visit from the police just to be spoken to a little nicer? You cannot (as pointed out) keep or dispose of these goods and I'd personally get in touch with the retailer as quickly as possible unless you want court action and possibly a criminal case for theft.

I quite agree with both your response and the response of Isiris. When first reading this I suspected a wind up but as the thread progressed, like yourselves I started to believe that how this person was behaving was in fact real!!

I would just like to add that I have PM'd a Mod to get their interpretation of this ridiculous thread as I believe letting a thread like this continue is totally against what the site stands for.

I wonder how the person is feeling who received your goods in error??

[demon_x_slash]

Holding this guy's goods to ransom because he spoke abruptly to you smacks rather of the playground, I'm sorry. This was a simple mistake. He's well within his rights to be peed off and the tone of his emails as this goes on shows this plainly. Frankly, if I had received your emails as a seller, I would be a little put off by your tone. Think of the other guy, meant to receive that parcel, too - what did he do to you?

The revelation of your data may be illegal, but I think it's an empty threat - it sounds like the words of a man desperate to get his items back and therefore satisfy his (better) customer. If you do go to court over this, the judge is extremely likely to rule in his favour - then there's a chance you MAY also be liable for his costs, even in the Small Claims, as a judge may rule your defence frivolous.

Do everyone a favour and give it back. You don't have to be gracious about it, or polite (I think it's got past that stage now tbh), and you don't have to pay to return it, but it would save both you, him, his other customer and the courts a lot of time and money.

[blacksheep1979]

Wow - I thought people were going to tell me to stop being mean. Just glad that there are people on this site who see sense and view the bigger picture of right/wrong.

[dalemiles]

Morally i do not think that i should keep it, like i said this is out of character for me, what im simply saying is, according to my rights posted on the CAB website it states i have the right to keep or dispose of goods. The law doesnt work on morals.

 

The original reciepent will still get his goods, thats not an issue here, as for the nature of the site i assumed it was a discussion forum here to help people. im not after a free buck, i would return it and probably will when i can, but due to work this wont be for a few days at least.

 

Im seeing a solicitor on monday to get the law confirmed as most the people here just seem to be posting what they feel.

 

If you know this is against the law or not, then please back up your claims with examples ie, the website link and where the law is written, i really would appreciate this.

[barracad]

What charges will the police be charging me with?

 

Theft.

[dalemiles]

For accepting goods delivered to me, with no details other than my name and address written on the front?

[barracad]

Not for accepting them, for refusing to send them back when requested. Big difference.

[dalemiles]

ive not said in any email that i will not send them back, originaly i was fishing for maybe a bit of store credit or something for the hassle of my time, (due to my working hours waiting for a courier to come and collect a parcel is not an option, im rarey in to receive and normaly have to travel to the depo soon before it closes) i was hoping by showing him my rights and saying i was glad i know knew where it had came from would maybe get a different answer other than threatening to tell some guy my details so he can come knocking on my door, it was after that threat my mood completly changed and i wanted to enforce my rights as i read them.

 

The package has not been touched in any way as i do intend to send it back, i was just hoping it was going to go a different way, more so to teach them a lesson in customer handling, something which according to other users of the site feel they seem to lack.

[barracad]

You've posted no less than 4 emails on this thread where you made it clear to the retailer that you intended to permanently deprive him of his goods.

 

Seems as you seem so interested in the relevant pieces of legislation, you may wish to start with the Theft Act 1968:

 

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;

 

As for the CAB website, before you rely on them as gospel you may want to read their disclaimer.

 

The information in this website is for general guidance on your rights and responsibilities and is not legal advice. If you need more details on your rights or legal advice about what action to take, please contact an advisor or solicitor.

 

If you want to complain about the inconvenience from you having to make arrangements to exchange the parcels then great, but it is a bit late in the day to do that now - you won't get any kind of credit or goodwill from the retailer because they won't want you as a customer any more. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

 

For future reference, if you want to complain about something you may find this guide useful:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/51998-how-complain-comprehensive-guide.html

 

You have been told by several people you are in the wrong - accept it.

 

This site takes the moral high ground and, quite frankly, could do with less of this nonsense. Send the goods back before you get yourself in more trouble, and forget the whole saga.

[dalemiles]

Barracad,

 

you have done exactly what ive asked,

 

quoted what i needed to hear.

 

I will be contacting the retailer to let them know the times the parcel can be collected, seeing this is the best i can do.

 

I will still how ever be making a complaint, for the manner in which he spoke to me, even though i was in the wrong, he still should not have resorted to threats.

[barracad]

Good luck with the complaint but I would be surprised if you even get an acknowledgment, let alone a reply.

[dalemiles]

Retailer has been informed of the situation.

 

So your telling me, that if i report a threat of breaking the data protection act wont get a blink of the eye?

[Isiris]

Dale

 

I think you may be losing the objectives of this site.

 

Its not just to put right wrongs, its to ensure that everyone works within the laws. There are probably little things that posters know could be "Grey" but these are not posted. This site attempts at all time to take the moral high ground on all issues.

 

As I said in my post, the CAB that you keep relying on is a broad stroke and I even included a reason why this legislation was introduced. Have you taken the time to look at the link I posted ?

 

Leave it be, send him his goods back and move on. You are just becomeing frustrated and upset for nothing. Sending an email saying I will advise the owner where you live is not an offence but theft is.

[dalemiles]

Yeh i have done,

 

I guess the thought of getting somehing for free because of a mess up was to good to be true, just anoying, because where i work, if you mess up you pay for your mess.

 

After being pointed to the CAB website and many of my friends instructing me and telling me what i wanted to hear i guess i lost sight.

 

Still its better to be safe than sorry and i certainly dont want a criminal record, most definatly not for theft, its just not worth it.

[Bookworm]

Good decision. Well done.

[Boobaby]

Yeh i have done,

 

I guess the thought of getting somehing for free because of a mess up was to good to be true, just anoying, because where i work, if you mess up you pay for your mess.

 

After being pointed to the CAB website and many of my friends instructing me and telling me what i wanted to hear i guess i lost sight.

 

Still its better to be safe than sorry and i certainly dont want a criminal record, most definatly not for theft, its just not worth it.

 

Glad to hear you've not actually taken leave of your senses!! As I said earlier I thought you were a wind up, nice to know that you've sorted the situation.

Just a quick suggestion -

 

get some new friends:D !

Boo x

[dalemiles]

LOL, yes or people that actualy know something about the law,

 

Worryingly the people ive been talking to are from all ages 17-47 all in different professions, its kinda worrying that they to thought i was in the right.