Orange Care Insurance

[maleo]

Hi all,

 

Here's one for you if Orange ever try to charge you an admin fee for processing a claim on your Orange Care...

 

Orange Care is an insurance policy that protects your handset. It's underwritten by HSBC, and is governed by the FSA's guidelines for insurance. As such, the policy has to provide you with indemnity, which (in simple terms) puts you in the same position you were when you started - it's one of the basic principles of insurance. As part of this, all administration fees for the insurance HAVE to be part of your premium - i.e. the £5 or £6 you pay per month. Anything extra has to be called an excess, and has to be outlined in your policy.

 

I know this as I know someone who works in insurance. Which was mightily handy when Orange tried to charge me a £15 administration fee for replacing a broken mobile phone covered by Care. After speaking to customer services, who spoke to Orange's legal dept, I had the admin fee returned, and every payment I'd ever made to Orange Care.

 

Phone Customer Care, and ask to speak to a manager. Mention that you are fully aware of their escalation procedure, and that you wish to speak to a manager about a legal issue. Outline the above, and tell them that you require them to refund the administration fee, and (if you wish at this point to cancel your care) that, as they are in breach of contract, you want your contract cancelled, and your premiums reimbursed. Also remind them that as they're governed by the FSA, you have the right to submit an official complaint to them, which would result in an investigation into their practices. Also ask when the last time the insurance department had any FSA training - as this is a requirement of FSA membership, and they can levy a fine for inadequate/incorrect training.

 

Took me less than a week to get the lot back.

 

Dave

[buzby]

It's is also worth remembering that it is often better to carry the risk yourself, unless you are accident prone or travel abroad a lot. Any replacement handset supplied will never be new, but a factory refurb - this includes like for like arrangements. So the value of what is just an insurance policy is greatly diminished, it would be easier to request a replacement SIM and buy a replacement phone on eBay.

[kurtjones123]

iv had a problem like this aswell. in janurary i lost my phone so i orded a new sim and paid the £15 for it, a few days later however my phone was returned to me. i decided to set up insurance with orange care, also i requested a letter to send my sim back to replace the money. 3 months on and they have finnaly waived the £15 from my bill. But they have charged me £15 admin care, for 2 months ago when i returned my phone due to a fault, which i haved had with the same model twice previously, i did not get charged the first two times i returned my phone, before i set up the care, yet this time i was. surely im passin the £6 a month so i do have to pay money when my phone breaks?

[buzby]

Depends on the terms you agreed, but the £6pm is a fee you will pay for the service, and it supplies a speedy replacement. If you are complaining that you have to pay £6 when it 'breaks', if they decide the fault is abuse it isn't replaced, so you'll have to purchase another - and this will cost more than £6.

 

Only you can decide whether it is worth the money.

[fedupwithorange]

Orange Care – absolute joke as with all other insurance companies. I dropped my iphone and the screen went when a kid bumped into me, the boy said sorry and they say I have to waste police time by calling it assault, assault is a very serious crime, WHEN ARE THE POLICE GOING TO BE ABLE TO POLICE THE STREETS AND NOT HAVE TO LOOK INTO STUPID WAYS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TRY TO GET OUT OF THEIR FINANCIAL AGREEMENTS!! argh!! Drives you mad, then the police have to follow it up with a "how was our service call" and a counselor. It's insane, let the police get on with their VERY important work and let Orange Care actually do their job.

[buzby]

It was an accident. I can only assume they've suggested this because you do not have accidental cover as part of the policy (otherwise, what would be the point?). If this wasn't part of your policy, you'd have to cover the repair cost yourself - so they may have been trying to be 'helpful'.

[fedupwithorange]

But I do have full cover - accident, theft and loss, and checked on signing up that I was covered for screen damage as it's been a problem for friends with iphones – every insurance company looks for a loophole, Orange Care are no exception. While I'm mucking about trying to get the ridiculous paperwork together for them (which would involve reporting a 'crime' that is an accident) I could be claiming on other insurance, incurring losing no claims, which I shouldn't have to lose but it'll be too late after talking to Orange for a week. Complete waste of my money and time. Not feeling cared for Orange Care.

[buzby]

Accidents do not require reporting, so the advice of the agent is flawed. Suggest you call back and ask to speak with a supervisor. You could riff a bit and say the police were unimpressed with their advice!

[fedupwithorange]

thanks for the advice, already emailed the police the quandary and they said to call to chat, was going to ask their advice tonight. Keep you posted, thanks again.

[Bradden]

Interesting thread

 

I'm currently in dispute over a pair of Motorola Razr2 V8 phones.

 

My wife noticed a large crack in hers and I put in a claim for it. They were out of stock of the gray/black model and offered a brown one which she rejected. I noticed a couple of days later that mine also had a crack. I phoned and reported it and was told they would order one for me also.

They agreed to waive the "admin" fee after much arguing.. I've never agreed to pay it as there was no fee when I first took out the insurance.

 

Now I've found out a week later that there is no phone on order.. they are simply waiting to get a faulty one returned to refurbish and send to me .

 

They advise me to call each day or take a brown one. I've complaine that they've been taking my insurance for years (last replaced Aug 2008) and never bothered to tell me my phone was discontinued. All they will offer us is the bown phone. I've suggested several alternative.. offer me one of the other phones availalable free to new customers.. without a new contract.. or refund the cost for me to buy a replacement elsewhere. They will not budge.

I've threated to quit Orange (I'm out of contract) ... we've been with them over 10 years and sue them for misselling insurance.

 

I feel they should have notified me the phone was unavialable.. I could have upgraded phones and been out of contract by now.

 

They've misinformed me from the start.. failed to call back or escalate and yesteday a team leader in insurance advised me that I was wasting my time complaining. They feel offering me a brown phone is all they need to do to fulfil their contract.

 

So I was delighted to read your thread.. there's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I assume I can only claim back 6 years worth of premiums.. I've had orange care since 2003 or before. Can I claim back all premiums though the small claims court?

 

Can anyone give me the orange details I need for the claims process please?

 

Thanks

[buzby]

You have a couple of misconceptions about your insurance. ONLY if it was on a 'new for old' basis could you reasonably expect a new replacement to equal or greater value to thew phone you alread had. Therefore, a refurb replacement is not only a recommended solution, but has passed more tests that new ones comping off the production line (where only a small sample is checked).

 

As to the admin fee, the only works if this is explained in the policy document for the insurance - usually, this is morphed into an 'excess' where you pay the first £25 or £50 of any claim. There is no requirement for them to contact you that a particular model is discontinued, as they never guarantee a like for like replacement. Further, you are NEVER out of contract, only you;ve met the minimum term commitment - a very different situation.

 

They are correct - your dislike of a 'brown' replacement is unreasonable, and if you take them to court and wish to defewnd the issue, you will be hit with their capped costs for doing so. As for cl;aiming 6 years, of what? You had an insurance policy in force during this time - trying to claim this back will also ultimately fail. THe acid test is that any action must be 'reasonable', they appear to pass this test, whereas you claims do not.

[Bradden]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have no objection to a refurbished model.. they just cannot supply one and have advised me to phone every day.

 

I was orginally informed it was on order.. it was only after I complained having waited a week was I informed that they had to wait to get one returned.. I feel I was misled. I could be waiting weeks or more for a replacement if I followed their advice.

 

Orange are very clear that the £15 is an admin fee.. and not an excess.. therefore I feel I may be able to make a claim on these grounds as the orginal poster suggested.

 

I do not feel I am being ureasonable in asking for Orange to offer me more than one alternative phone. They have taken 2 years worth of premiums for an item they are unable to replace. There may not be a "requirement" for them to notify me a model is unavailable but I think it would be reasonable for me to expect them to do so. They happily take payment to insure a phone they cannot replace.

 

As a customer for over 10 years I feel Orange could do more to help.. whether they have a legal obligation to or not. It would just be good customer service.. but it seems my complaints fall on deaf ears.

 

I therefore see that taking action in the way the original poster suggested could be a course of action as Orange are unwilling to budge and insist I accept their offer.

 

Can I sue them for charging an admin fee on an insurance policy as suggested?

[buzby]

An admin fee has to be disclosed at the time the insurance is taken out (or if a subsequent amendment imposed the charge). To succeed, you need to show the documentation you were provided with that did not disclose a fee would be charged (as you can be sure, they will be able to supply documentation to prove that a fee was advised). The trick is to ask them when this fee was introduced, and if this was at a date later than when you took out the policy, you can trump them by saying you were covered under the original (no cost) arrangement,especially if they cannot confirm when you were advised of any change to their charges.

 

I do hate to say it, how long you have been a customer is irrelevant to businesses these days - they are taken for granted as a rule, and when you see the better deals for new customers compared to existing, makes you realise loyalty is not valued in the slightest.

[Bradden]

Hi all,

 

Orange Care is an insurance policy that protects your handset. It's underwritten by HSBC, and is governed by the FSA's guidelines for insurance. As such, the policy has to provide you with indemnity, which (in simple terms) puts you in the same position you were when you started - it's one of the basic principles of insurance. As part of this, all administration fees for the insurance HAVE to be part of your premium - i.e. the £5 or £6 you pay per month. Anything extra has to be called an excess, and has to be outlined in your policy.

 

 

Dave

 

 

Is Maleo wrong then to say that it is against FSA Guildlines to charge an Admin Fee? I have been advised about the admin fee so I was interested to read the above. I have always believed that as I took out the insurance before the fee was introduced I was excempt and they have waived it before on those grounds. I did pay it once simply because I got fed up with agruing with them about it.

 

I have to agree with you about loyalty.. I've learn't my lesson now.. being loyal only increases their profits and gets you nothing in exchange. Seems very short sighted but I guess they make enough money not to need my business. I could have had a free upgrade on my phone ages ago but they aren't interested in that. They seem to think that they only have to fulfil their legal obligations.. which isn't good customer service.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Bradden

[Bradden]

Can someone please give me the details for Orange so I can complain to the FSA please.

 

Thanks

[buzby]

They arn't a Financial institution so an FSA complaint would be pointless. What is the problem?

[Bradden]

They arn't a Financial institution so an FSA complaint would be pointless. What is the problem?

 

I believe their insurance is covered under FSA.

 

 

They have "found" a black phone but cannot replace the other phone which is damaged.

 

They have already credited our account with £170 (despite me not agreeing to their offer) on the understanding that they will replace one phone with a black one but not the other.

 

I beleive I last claimed on one phone in May 2005 and the other phone they do not have a record of the last replacement.

 

I have folowed Maleos advice and they phoned me today to tell me that they had a black phone in stock now (2 weeks after I requested a replacment) and have credited my account.

 

I do not beleive this is a reasonable offer and wish to complain to the FSA.

[buzby]

They'll still not touch you unless you get a 'deadlock' letter from the network, where they state they will not meet your demands.

[Bradden]

I wasn't aware of that. I guess I need to put my complaint to the insurance team in writing first.

 

I'm also not happy as I've been informed that my insurance has been cancelled without my consent.

[buzby]

On the last point, you'll find consent is not required (check the T&Cs). Should the underwriters wish to cancel cover, they MUST provide written notice (may be 30 days). They do not require the permission of the insured to do this.

[Bradden]

I haven't been given any notice. I was told by the guy at Ornage that my insance had been cancelled with immediate effect and a credit applied to my account.

 

It's just added to my general anger at the way this issue has been dealt with. I used to love Orange.. not any more.

[buzby]

The credit is in lieu of the notice (and acts as your notice period).

[Bradden]

I can report some success.. they have agreed to refund nearly 3 years worth of premiums (since we last upgraded) for both our phones.