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    • I have not looked much at your WS though it is looking good. I would have mentioned that as they failed to comply with  Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007. that they are in breach of their agreement CoP with BPA to keep to all the legal requirements in running their parking  operations. It calls into question their right to apply for motorists data from the DVLA. I would wait for their WS to arrive so that you can pick holes in that too. howver watch that if they are late that you send your off just within the Court guidelines. What you are tying to do with your WS is to put your side of the case plus put CEL in as bad a light as possible for them to  decide that they don't really want to go to Court after all.
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    • I am bound to say that their alleged contract is probably the weirdest I have seen. Considering it is supposed to be a serious legal contract to set out the conditions under which CEL manage the parking on land that does not belong to them it leaves a lot to be desired. For a start it does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice which is   7.3 a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.   Sono  mention of hours: no mention of types of vehicle restrictions: no mention of who is responsible for the erection and maintenance of signage and much more serious -no mention that CEL have to comply with the BPA Code of conduct-that one is listed on 7.1.  All it states is that the operator can pursue outstanding PCs in accordance with the COP but that is not the same as saying that CEL will abide by the CoP which it must say. Also AFAIK the only entity that can pursue for trespass is the land owner regardless of what this quasi agreement says. There is also no mention of the financial aspect of the arrangement nor how the long it lasts and what notice is required for either side to terminate.     It might be worth writing [not emailing ]to Medburn Estates asking them to confirm if this is the only agreement with CEL and whether they think it right that CEL have not received planning permission for their signs from the Council rendering their signs illegal which is more serious than unlawful and therefore all PCNs issued are worthless and should not have been issued as it is impossible to form a contract with motorists when the signs are illegal. Also that as CEL are their agents Medburn Estates LTD are responsible for the actions of their agents. You could also ask them to cofirm that the signature on the paper is that of their Director, Anthony Brown and whether their copy has a counter signature of a CEL representative. Carry on that CEL are taking you to Court and as another Judge has asked a Landowner to appear in front of him to explain their contract, whether it might be in the best interest of Medway to have a serious conversation with CEL to avoid any possible  embarrassments in your  [ie Laluna] Court appearance.        
    • UncleB - where you write "This could lead you to facing the Bank in Court..."   1stly -  would that mean now?  by remote hearing?  Or when the courts open after the summer?   2ndly - Does the application for set aside automatically prevent the B hearing going ahead?   3rdly - Will sending in an application to have the B petition set aside mean that I have to disclose an address for service?   I can only give a mailing address   4thly - Could having an early (remote) set aside hearing potentially quicken up the process for the bank if I am obliged to give them a suitable place for service?  At the moment I assume the hearing was adjourned for lack of physical service.   I want/ need to get a set aside.  But don't want to shoot myself in the foot.  
    • Where I have sight of a letter which states the following: "a) the case is removed from scheduled date and time on the court list forthwith    b) the case will be re-listed on the 1st open date after x few months, a date to be advised" Is there any way a hearing would be any earlier than suggested?  Lockdown closed courts but may they open early?    Could the bank ask it to be brought forward even with lockdown still in place officially til end July?    Would that depend on them physically serving a b petition?   Could the 1st open date be any time up to Christmas with such a potential back log of cases?  
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ED1237

Letter to Court re CPR18 request

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site admin sorry about the mess

 

cannot get use to 2007 yet

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StevePM

 

If you find this useful please tip my scales

 

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thanks for that, so I can just go ahead and fill this out, and send it to Nasty West (as I have seen them referrred to on this site!)

Do I also need to submit a defence - as they did to me? And do I still need to respond to their CPR18?

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Your wish is my command here is your defence well a draft for you.

 

Q1.1 In relation to each charge please identify:

A1.1: The information within this direction was supplied within document pack supplied to the Court. However since this has been directed the response to the requested CPR18 can be found below and within the attached spreadsheet.

(a) The dates when the charge was charged

A1.1 Date if each occasion when a penalty was charged to the account. It is noted that since the original list was compiled the defendant has seen fit to supply the missing information as requested within the original Data Information Request submitted in December 2006 and re-submitted in February 2007. The information has been gathered from This therefore has necessitated an amend. This amendment has been highlighted within the spreadsheet.

(b) The amount of the same

 

A1.2. The amount of the same, penalty charged to the account, is given within the attached spreadsheet, it is noted that this information has been gathered via information supplied by the defendant (Bank Statements) and readily available to the defendant without this request. It is noted that sine the original submission Claim was submitted the Defendant has seen fit to supply missing information. This information has resulted in an increase of the Claimed to £6,094.86 and interest of £1,793.14 totalling sum £7,888.00.

I would therefore request that the court now accepts that the above be the amount to be repaid by the defendant.

© the reason(s) given for the charging of the same

The reason(s) for the charges of the same are included individually within the attached spreadsheet. This information was made available to the defendant prior to the Hearing. It is noted that this information has been available to the defendants through their own supplied information (Bank Statements).

 

1.2 In respect of each charge, please clarify the following:

(a) is it the case of the claimant the same should not have been charged.

The Claimant is aware that each charge has been debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s account pursuant to the terms and conditions when the account was opened. However, please see my replies below.

(b) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged:

The Claimant does not contend that the same should not have been charged; merely that the charge made should have represented the Defendant’s liquidated losses and not the fixed charges applied by the Defendant according to the terms and conditions in force at the time the charge was made.

 

© if no; is tit the case of the claimant that the same should not have been charged in this amount

This is exactly the Claimant’s case. Each charge debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s bank account should not have been charged in the amount that was charged. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant. The Claimant reminds the Defendant that it has been put to strict proof in previous correspondence and/or the Particulars of Claim that the amount charged for each charge debited does truly reflect the Defendant’s costs and that they are not making a profit from such charges – in the absence of any documentation to support the Defendant’s contention that each charge debited represents the Defendant’s liquidated losses, the Claimant contends that the Defendant has no defence to the claim that each charge is disproportionate and therefore unenforceable in common law, or by the previously claimed Acts, Statutes and Regulations pleaded.

(d) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged in this amount and identify the sum the claimants contends should have been charged

The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has failed to reply to the Claimant’s request for a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account. The Defendant’s contentions that the charges are fair, reasonable and transparent are denied because of this material failure to disclose this information. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

(e) if no please state the claimants case

 

2 In your claim you state "the charges are an unlawful extravagant penalty".

 

2.1 Please specify whether these charges applied were due to a breach of contract by the claimant

 

2.2 Please identify in each case the particular breach of contract (by reference to appropriate terms of the contract and the charge relates to

 

3. In your claim you state that the charges" applied constitutes an unfair penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999"

 

3.1 Please supply all of the facts relied on by the claimant in support of the contentions in Paragraph 2 above and in particular please identify the contractual provisions that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the Regulations.


StevePM

 

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wow, you've really come up trumps! I'm just unsure about once sentence:

"It is noted that sine the original submission Claim was submitted the Defendant has seen fit to supply missing information. This information has resulted in an increase of the Claimed to £6,094.86 and interest of £1,793.14 totalling sum £7,888.00.

what missing information is meant?"

 

Is this something that I am supposed to substitute with my own particulars?

Do I need to send the list of charges again?

Do I send this defence along with the CPR18 (and list of charges?) that I am submitting?

sorry for all the questions but I am feeling quite out of my depth here :eek:

The bank's scare tactics are achieving the desired effect - I'm panicking! There's just so much legalese to wade through and they want a response by 10 July to their CPR18

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Sorry should have taken that section out that was in my case only since they forgot or just did not send some of the statement. You should remove that section.

 

StevePM


StevePM

 

If you find this useful please tip my scales

 

First win £5k+ another five on the go all with NatWest

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ok, that's a relief! I have been posting in the first person, but actually I am trying to reclaim for my dad. Unfortunately he has calculated in interest charges that can't be reclaimed. Neither did he send a full list of charges, just the total, plus interest calculated on this total. I realise that this could mean quite a difference in amount claimed and real amount charged. Would amending the claim amount at this late stage adversely affect the claim? I feel bad monopolising your time like this, I am just finding it difficult to come in and have to sort through all of this (and we're talking 6 years worth of statements for two accounts!) when I wasn't there in the beginning stages........:Cry:

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ok, that's a relief! I have been posting in the first person, but actually I am trying to reclaim for my dad. Unfortunately he has calculated in interest charges that can't be reclaimed. Neither did he send a full list of charges, just the total, plus interest calculated on this total. I realise that this could mean quite a difference in amount claimed and real amount charged. Would amending the claim amount at this late stage adversely affect the claim? I feel bad monopolising your time like this, I am just finding it difficult to come in and have to sort through all of this (and we're talking 6 years worth of statements for two accounts!) when I wasn't there in the beginning stages........:Cry:

 

Hi Thm

 

Just a word of encouragement - I was at similar stage to you a few weeks ago - Steve PM very helpful - knows his stuff!!

 

My hearing was this morning - Cobbetts/NastyWest. I was so nervous but lo and behold I received half a dozen telephone calls from Cobbetts yesterday trying to settle. At first, offered £300 less. I was very brave and said no (after consulting this site and getting an answer back pronto!). I stuck it out and after five more calls - where they still used scare tactics talking about their barrister being on call to attend the hearing - they finally coughed up with full amount about 3pm yesterday. Attended court today anyway to inform the judge and he "adjourned" the hearing for 28 days to ensure money received. I actually arrived home from the court to find a cheque delivered for £2,600. So be brave, dont let the banks/Cobbetts bully you and you will get there in the end!! jhamb

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thanks for the encouragement! Still not sure if amending the original claim amount will affect the case - know where I can find out?

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jhamb

thanks for the compliment but it just that the banks cannot do what they like to ordinary people. Watch this space my boys and wife are next

 

Stevepm


StevePM

 

If you find this useful please tip my scales

 

First win £5k+ another five on the go all with NatWest

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jhamb

thanks for the compliment but it just that the banks cannot do what they like to ordinary people. Watch this space my boys and wife are next

 

Stevepm

 

Hear Hear! Fired up ready to start my new claim against NatWest for further charges incurred. Also my daughter's boyfriend has just confirmed he has about £300 worth of charges on account with Nationwide - Iv told him to get them back pronto!! As a matter of interest, did you apply for wasted costs? If so, how did you get on?

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thm

you can amend you amount right up till you sit in front of the JUdge and even then you can ask the judge for an amendment. Provided that you have good reason you can amend it.

 

I do not want to prior but what reason do you need ot change the amount

 

Stevepm


StevePM

 

If you find this useful please tip my scales

 

First win £5k+ another five on the go all with NatWest

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I am helping my dad to claim back his charges but have gotten invloved at a late stage. He had already (incorrectly)calculated the total sum and (misguidedly) included a few interest charges that you can't claim back. I am now going through everything again and amending it

thanks for the help!

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Hi All please can somebody help.. I like many others received a defence from cobbettson the 29th June but in it they have set out the usual defence asking for more information... but only gave me until 5th July to respon. Due to postal strike i only received court transfer of proceedings today which also said .........................

 

It is ordered that :-

 

1. The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the district judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise. **

 

Note: Any party affected by this order may under rule 3.3(5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such party must apply under rule 23.3within 14 days of service of this order.

 

** Please note that an allocation fee may be pa\yable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for details.

 

Can anybody help please should I respond to cobblers or not any help appreciated

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Hi, I have finally managed to cobble together a response to the CPR18 issued to me by cobbetts, I am posting it here for some advice or for some of you more experienced posters to give the once over:

 

IN THE LEICESTER COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO. XXXXXXX

 

 

 

BETWEEN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Claimant

 

 

 

-and- NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC

 

Defendant

 

 

RESPONSE TO REQUEST FOR FUTHER INFORMATION AND CLARIFICATION

 

 

NOTE- IMPORTANT

 

This response is served pursuit to CPR 18

 

 

The Response

 

1. In response to Para 2.1 and 2.2 (a)(b); of defendants request please find herewith (attached Schedule one) a break down of the charges applied to the claimants account this includes the claimants account number sort code and the dates of the charges were applied, the reason and the interest accrued on each charge.

 

2. In response to Para 2.2; of the defendants request, the claimant has already explained why the charges should not have been applied but for the avoidance of doubt the claimant alleges that the charges are Penalty charges and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79, along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses.

 

3. In response to Para 2.3(a) Yes, the claimant should not have been charged an amount above the true administrative cost incurred by the respondents,

In response to Para 2.3(b) the claimant should not have been charged for reasons outlined in Para 2.

In response to Para 2.3 ©The claimant argues that each charge debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s bank account should not have been charged in the amount that was charged. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant.

4. In response to Para 2.3(d) The Defendants have asked what the claimant should have been charged, to answer this the claimant will need a break down of the administrative cost incurred by the defendant in applying the said charges. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

 

If the defendant requires any further information, the claimant will be happy to provide this once the discloser of documents/information has been dealt with by the court.

 

Sincerely,

 

I have also sent a letter to both the courts and cobbetts detailing my revision of the claim amount with a copy of the schedule of charges (as advised by the court over the phone). and a nudge letter to cobbetts asking them to settle out of court for the full amount and save us all time and money.

Q1) Is this CPR18 response accurate/sufficient?

Q2) Do I still need to send a draft order (even though I've been told that an AQ will be dispensed with unless the DJ orders otherwise)?

 

Thanks for all the help I've had so far, just need to tie it all together now to make sense of everything and get this dreaded mess over with.

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any help out there? I have to post this response first thing monday or I will miss the deadline!!!!:shock:

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thm, have a look at the CPR 18 response in this link here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/67743-natwest-final-stage-i-2.html#post583665

 

As you haven't done so yet, I strongly advise you to start your own thread in the main Nat West forum. This way, people can support you with your claim and give you the most appropriate advice in the future.


Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

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I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

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Hi all, Some advice on next move. Today recieved a letter from Plymouth County Court advising us that the case against NatWest Bank had been Stayed until the result of the test cases is known. We have the option to appeal the stay.

Comments Please

robbyS :?

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Hi robby, welcome on board.

 

Unfortunately, many courts are staying cases at the moment - but you can attempt to have it set aside (there are links on how to do this on my signature).

 

You may find it useful to start a new thread in the Nat West forum - robby vs Natwest.

 

Best of luck :)


Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

A-Z Guide

*** PLEASE NOTE ***

I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

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