My bro Vs NAtwest

[indebtstudent]

I wouldn't lose my temper, my letters are always very measured (well apart from the one I sent Virgin but I had decided to leave them anyway and felt I deserved a little fun btw I got a decent refund)

[indebtstudent]

All I was going to do was point out the facts of the matter - the main one being you claim to have reviwed the account, and yet you make basic factual errors like reference to future of the account, payment direct to the account (what account!).

 

And something like I appreciate your offer but, as we've now incurred court costs, only a full settlement for the charges plus interest would be acceptable.

[steven4064]

You have probably realised by now that the letter you got from Stu was the same as everyone else gets. There is good evidence to suggest that whatever you write to them will not be read, merely filed. Do as muggins says and don't waste your energy (or your ink). Give them the 14 days and move on to the next stage. By all measns ask for a copy of the T&Cs applicable when you openend the acoount. They have to supply them, either now or later. When (if) you sue them you can make them give them to you.

 

Steven

[indebtstudent]

We're already filed for court... But the T & C's at time of account opening is the main thing I want and need.

[steven4064]

Write to Borehamwood and copy to Cobbetts. Here is some text I found elsewhere on the site (slightly modifoed):

 

Please forward a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6© for my case number YYY in the XXXX County Court

 

You will need to include reference to your account number, of course

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

[muggins73]

Well at least you got a response..albeit a bog standard crappy one, but it's more than most at present:p

As for the T&C's it wouldn't surprise me if you received them a month or so after they'd settled your claim (out of court, obviously!!!!), as they are renouned for their competence. I've just had a response to my letter dating back to Dec'06 preventing them from passing my personal information onto any third party, my claim was settled back in February and March, that's how efficient they truely are:rolleyes:

[indebtstudent]

Jusr reassures me really, that and the fact HSBC paid out my claim (£326.00 winging its way to me!).

 

What kind of organisation would offer half of money they did not owe you?

 

It's all good now, if they pay the money to his account this is almost the exact amount they have defaulted him for, if they send him a cheque he can spend how he sees fit.

 

The default one would be best in the long run as then he can remortgage, and have nothing more to do with them.

[indebtstudent]

Just responding to the banks response of half, pointing out we've already incurred court costs and will consider nothing other than a full settlement. I'm also going ot have a carefullly worded dig pointing out that the contents of the letter is contradictory. It says he has reviewed the account and that it will have to be managed better in the future (paraphrasing for speed) but the account has been closed for months.

 

Probably get standerd response but at least

[indebtstudent]

I will have made the position clear

[indebtstudent]

My response, he'll probably just say I disagree but at least I've made the position clear and besides its good practice for dealing with solicitors later.

 

Oh I'll get the defence up over the weekend see if I can start to unsettle them...

[indebtstudent]

Dear Mr Higley,

I thank you for finally replying to the letter I sent some time ago requesting a refund of charges. Unfortunately I must respectfully decline the two offers you made on May 16th because the amounts fall short of the amount claimed in my letter. I clearly set a deadline for you to reply to both of my letters and this deadline has been greatly exceeded so as per my two warnings I had no alternative but to file for court.

Accordingly at this time the only settlement that would be acceptable to me, if you insist on crediting the account, is for the full amount of the court claim. I have already paid the court fee and interest is accruing daily, if you feel my calculations are in error please send evidence to support this and I shall happily compare your calculations to my own. I would also require, if the funds were to be paid direct to the account, that you remove any entries you have made on my credit in relation to this amount. A correction is not acceptable, as I have made my understanding of the law relating to these charges clear.

In relation to your letter I must make further comment, firstly I believe the comments you make in relation to service charges would not stand up in court and look forward to testing this argument. Even if this argument were sound it does not justify the repeated imposition of the unauthorized fee which you put on the account whilst doing little other than sending out the statement which is an automated process. Furthermore it does not justify the charges imposed where a direct debit is returned unpaid. Essentially all Natwest charges a fee for NOT processing a transaction, a very peculiar ‘service’ indeed. If a customer asks for more money from an ATM than is in the account the machine will decline the request with no charge, both systems are automated so I fail to see what ‘service’ the customer is benefiting from.

One could also make the argument that the banks in this country are akin to a cartel and thus customer ‘accept’ the terms and conditions (the legality of which is questionable) because they have no real choice – they need a bank account in order to be paid.

It is interesting that I have received, in response to letters relating to this matter, copies of the current terms and conditions when the bulk of this claim relates to past terms and conditions. I am not a fool and am aware that many banks and building societies have redrafted their terms and conditions to try to cloak their unlawful penalty charges as service charges and it is my belief that this effort will fail. If Natwest has nothing to hide then why don’t they furnish claimants with copies of the terms and conditions at the time of account opening?

You say charges can be avoided by arranging an overdraft in advance yet such facilities are provided entirely at the banks discretion and are arguable more difficult to obtain should a customer fall into financial difficulties.

Towards the end of your letter your comments indicate that you are clearly working from a template, you state Natwest

“may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with your existing banking facilities.”.

At present I have no banking facilities with Natwest, the account has been closed for sometime due to the balance, which is comprised almost entirely of the charges I intend to challenge successfully in court. Towards the end of your letter you say

“I trust this will resolve your complaint” but it is clear your letter could never do this. If you wish to assist further with this matter please explain why there is such a large difference in the fees charged in 2002 (£14) and more recently (£38). The system is the same, even allowing for inflation I see no justification for the rise save for greed.

I have no intention taking this matter to the Financial Ombudsmen Service as the issue here is whether the charges are lawful and only a court can decide this. My position is reasonable, in light of legal advice and the mass of information in the public domain, and in fact Natwest could have paid a lower amount if they had responded properly to the deadlines set out in my earlier communication.

Finally I am aware that you deal with many queries of this nature and wish to point out that I am not prepared to make any concessions, my terms are clearly laid out above. I have already incurred court costs and am not prepared to forgo this amount as I intend to vigorously contest this case. In short I am well aware of the methods banks use in such circumstances and I will not be swayed.

I look forward to hearing from you, and trust you will make the effort to reply in a more reasonable timescales.

[indebtstudent]

Alocation questionnaire filed, I've ordered small claims book so Ig et no more suprises.

 

Quick question should I point out to thier solicitors that I have rejected an offer from the bank?

[hedgey06]

It won't hurt - attach a copy of their offer and your rejection as well (I did!!!) C.c. to the court as well of course............ just to keep your file updated!

[posiepain]

NatWest rubbish reply

 

then we may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with your existing banking facilities. Instead we may off you a simple account that does not offer borrowing facilities or other services that can result in charges.

 

 

Been reading all the threads on here for past few days and I have to say this bit tickled me the most! I have one of these so called "simple" accounts and they've charged me left right and flippin centre on it because allegedly they process the debits before the credits (and that is a direct quote from this delightful bank). Am so looking forward to receiving this letter from Mr Higley! Anyway I'll shut up now. Giggle giggle.

 

Posie

[posiepain]

Ps Good luck to you and your bro, I'm also doing one for my bro on here with a different bank as well as my own against Natwest and I have to be honest I am rather relishing the prospect! Is that bad of me?! lol

[indebtstudent]

I'll type the defence up ASAP, I'm going to try and get this slung out as soon as poss its just a bad joke...

[indebtstudent]

Is there any point me typing thier defence up just ot chekc if it is same as others?

 

We have a court date, 16th Aug, and so the story (hopefully) enters the final chapter.

[hedgey06]

It's probably along the lines of:

 

- the P.O.C. do not disclose reasonable grounds.........

- on allocation the defendant invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference..........

- no admissions are made as to what charges have been debited...

- in relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions........ (plus 2 bullet points)..........

- in relation to the case of the claimaing that the charges must be reasonable........... (plus 5 bullet points)..........

- blah-di-blah.

 

Close?????????

[indebtstudent]

You must be clairvoyant

[indebtstudent]

So I've sent a copy of the banks letter, actually I made it sound a bit like the letters Cobbetts sent to me. I pointed out that I would accept a similar offer as part payment, that I've always made it clear I would proceed to court to claim the full amount. I pointed out that further delays mean increased costs to thier client, and finally I said I was disappointed that we have bene unable to avoid court when there was ample evidence that the charges are unlawful.

 

I'll keep you posted.

[indebtstudent]

Court date is 16th August at 10.30. I had better get my ass in gear!

[muggins73]

Court date is 16th August at 10.30. I had better get my ass in gear!

 

Same date my daughter goes into hospital.

 

Best to be prepared, but the likelihood is that they'll settle beforehand.

Fingers, legs, toes all crossed for ya:)

[indebtstudent]

Awww sorry Muggins, right ho research and organisation tomorrow night, better to be prepared. Thought I would have had some correspondance from thier solicitors by now...

 

Although actually I quite fancy thrashing it out in court. Would I be right in thinking because the AQ has been done then the case will proceed as planned?

[indebtstudent]

Whoops my bad 16th!

[muggins73]

Awww sorry Muggins, right ho research and organisation tomorrow night, better to be prepared. Thought I would have had some correspondance from thier solicitors by now...

 

Although actually I quite fancy thrashing it out in court. Would I be right in thinking because the AQ has been done then the case will proceed as planned?

 

Yep.

 

Whoops my bad 16th!

 

By bad 16th, are your referring to your birthday?

If so many happy returns:) At least you've got blinding weather, which is something!!!!!!!