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Not wishing to stir up the debate again, I have only experience of Abbey and Nationwide. For all their faults, when I transfer on-line the money is immediately transferred, so in this case the money would have been available to meet the payment. Whilst I appreciate NWSM probably is referring to the system at NatWest, there really is no excuse for the delay. Other banks can do it so why not the NatWest?

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Guest NATTIE

Just to state this clearly so everyone is clear I am not aware of any delay in a transfer from two accounts linked together. The only delay mentioned is on the date on the statement.

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But surely NWSM an online E saver and a current account will be linked together? I don't know about NatWest's methods from personal experience but the comments in the posts suggests the money was transferred on the Saturday but had not taken effect until Tuesday. Now with Abbey a transfer on Saturday was immediately available and the money could be withdrawn from a cash machine that same day. Is perhaps that the point that Steve needs to get across when he writes?

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I have never had any problem transferring funds between my Current Plus and Step accounts. Do it on line and it goes straight from one to the other. I also paid cash in at the branch the other day and it was available by the time I got home to buy something on line using my Switch card.

Advice given is either my experience or my opinion and is given without liability. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.

If you PM me for advice I will only reply in your own thread

 

Never under estimate your ability. I won over £17,000!

For the full story - look here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/NatWest-bank/17630-thecobbettslayer-NatWest.html

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Guest NATTIE

Please read this slowly and clearly, When money is transferred between two accounts online there is no delay in it going into the other account that is linked together. Please note that while the transfer is instant it will still show on the statement as Monday if a weekend, Wednesday if last Christmas or Tuesday if over the last weekend.

Does that make sense?

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I know the transfer would have shown on the morning of the 2nd if not the saturday, because I know I have had a few occasions when doing other transfers where I have had to send a customer home to transfer funds from an e savings account. That was instantly available although it would not have changed the result of your daughter's payment, which would have shown as being returned on the Saturday morning.(Automated Process and all) Good Luck and as I said I am sure that if not at the branch then a Prelim Letter should see that charge being refunded.

 

Hi NWSM I have just re read the above post and am a little confused why the payment would have been "returned on the Saturday". The payment out of her current account was not due until the Monday 1 Jan, that being a bank holiday, it did not get prossed until Tuesday 2 Jan. She transfered the funds from her Esaver account into her current account on Saturday 30 Dec

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Guest NATTIE

Because the payment needed to be in the account the previous working day which was Friday 29th December by 3:30pm to quote the fees guide

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Hello again NWSM

Sorry to be a pain here, when I started my previous post I had not seen your last post. Am I right in thinking then, that the standing order would still have been prossed Tuesday morning before the transfer would have shown on the system.

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Sorry again, our posts crossed over again, obversley your typing is qicker them mine. Thank again

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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and your spelling is better,

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Guest NATTIE

This is the difficult bit to explain because most bank systems are automated which mean that by saturday morning when the system was updated, even though the Standing Order was not due to go out till the Tuesday, the system was already bouncing it on the saturday prior to any transfer being made that day. Does that make sense? (I'm sure it would make me extremely annoyed to know that).

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Cheers NWSM. It seems like a great system (for a bank looking to make any oppertunity to make charges.)

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Can I just say here that whilst all input is welcome, the explanations you have provided NWSM are very difficult to understand. (I would even venture to say that I found post No 30 to be somewhat rude). I think we can all see clearly the problem here now and Steve really was right in the first place. The bank should not be bouncing a payment on Saturday that is not due until Monday or Tuesday for the simple reason that a) it's not due yet and b) an electronic transfer could be made to cover the amount and indeed in this case it was exactly what happened. A very stern letter would be my next course of action which is pretty much what Steve suggested in the first place.

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Guest NATTIE

Post 30 was frustration as I thought I had explained the process clearly.

 

However i will clarify why the item was bounced

 

To understand why though we need to understand working days as it stands. Monday to Friday which means any item due out on saturday to monday, cash has to be in the account the working day before by 330 or Friday to cover an item going out of the account.

When there are Bank Holidays then on this specific thread the Working days were Thursday 28th Dec Friday 29th Dec Jan 2nd 07. Which means that if the money was not in the account on the Friday any items that were due out over the period 30/12/06 to 02/01/2007 could be bounced if no funds were in the account to cover them by the Friday.

We all know the system is automated so when it was updated following Friday, showing things due out for 2/1/07, the item would have been in the process of being bounced.

Does that make it clear how the system works?

Which means that the transfer, while going through immediately(29th Dec), would have had no effect on the item being returned.

The transfer made on Sat, Sun, Monday would still have shown as being made 2nd Jan on any banks system, not just NatWest.

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Thanks for your patients here guys. It does seem to be a historic parctice in that, while in the days before automation things had to done manually and therefore in working hours. In these days of automation the banks have chosen to use automation where it suits them to do so, and to stick to out-of-date rules where that suits. They have insisted they staff adopt modern working practices while holding on to Monday to Friday, 9:00-3:30 for themselves

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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to Joneshousehold, NWSM is voluntarily providing time, advice and support, so please relax and don't be so sensisitive. It is a little harsh to think that was rude, I would say 'emphatic', but hey some people on this site need their advice robustly delivered, (in my opinion).

My advice has hardly any legal foundation whatsoever, however you never know it it might just work!

:cool:

 

NatWest Prelim 07.10.206

LBA 21.10.2006

MCOL 30.10.2006

Acknowledgment of Service 06.11.2006

Offer of approx 50% £2200.00 22.11.2006

Full settlement £4500 received 03.01.2007

Smile settled in full

Barclaycard settled in full

RBS Worldwide settled in full

Lloyds TSB settled in full £750.00

Lloyds TSB settled in Full £275.00 11.04.2007

Lloyds TSB business account £1376.00 AQ filed

Lloyds TSB Business account settled in full 21.05.07

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I don't know whether I am right here, but when I was at school many years before computers, we were taught that the banks would do debits from account in the morning and then credits in the afternoon.(This is the reason for my earlier slowness to grasp NWSM expenation, sorry NWSM) This would mean that if the funds were not in the account by closing time the day before they would not be there for the debit the next day. Prehapes, because debits and credits are now done in real time, the banks have adopted pricipal that the funds must be there the working day before hand.

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Hey, I am chilled. I just wanted to point out this thread was not as helpful to Steve as it could have been. We all provide advice, time and support for free. What I thought was wrong was the way the post started, like it was being addressed to very naughty children. It has since been acknowledged to be borne of frustration. It was my belief that frustration came about because the earlier postings were not clear. I have looked at them again and they still do not seem to be clear. Steve's last comment is spot on and this was the important point.

I thought I was being conciliatory whilst gently pointing out that post 30 has just stepped over the mark a bit. It must depend on the way you read my words. Try to image a gentle voice and the image of a caring face with a warm smile. The words seem to convey a different message then.

Anyway, no worries. I accept your view and as for asking me to relax - any more relaxed and I will be asleep!

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Guest NATTIE

I have this weird sense that the 3:30pm rule is in place because there are sub branches of banks who close at this time. I would love somebody to correct me on this one because I am guessing.

The Working Day thing relates to the Bank Of England and clearing money market accounts.

 

 

Just to be absolutely clear before we have a to and fro argument. Post 30 was meant to be brutally blunt and it can be read as rude. Let's all be civil and say we all understand how the system works now, if not then please ask further and I will try to explain. Let's not get into petty bickering as it serves no purpose.

 

Steve- has your daughter spoken to NatWest at all and have they been reasonable enough to refund the amount or harsh and not refunded any amount?

 

Edit phew at least this is a good thread

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Hi NWSM, I don't know you saw my post #42 before you posted #44. I just wondered whether that might be one expenation.

Just to be clear to all here, I have taken no afence at your posts and an greatfull for your time here, I'm sure we all get frustrated, and thats why we are here, driven to by the banks. I'm glad I don't have to work in them.

My daughter has not yet had the oppertunity to phone the bank as she is working all the hours she can before going back to uni next week, but she did get a letter from them yesterday telling her how naughty she had been and that they were charging her £38.00 and next time they wont write, they'll just charge

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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cont. from#45 she was told at the branch that she needs to speak to the leanding deptment, (seems to be a odd term as she has not boroughed any money and is not looking to do so,

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Guest NATTIE

seems od for just one single charge on a student account when managers can refund up to £50 in the branch without reference to anyone. Odd one. The letter means I know it was her only charge since she had the account. She can go into any branch of NatWest should be a 5 minute job.

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Thanks for the info, I'll pass that on to her.

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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While here: my wife has just had her statement. She was 90p OD at the end of Nov statement date, and was adviced they would take £28.00 fee. She went back into credit on the 8 Dec after receiving the statement and has remained in credit, however in thismornigs statement they advice they are taking another £28.00 for the same offence. Is this right

Creation Financial Services--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Statements received 28 Oct

PAR sent 30 Oct for £910 Credited £282 as Good will Offer

LBA sent 28 Dec for £730

N1 filled out, but they phoned and settelled in full 19 Jan:D

GE Capital--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Capital One---S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

Great Universal(Littlewoods Shop Direct--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 18 Oct

PAR sent 19 Jan

 

Nat West--S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 26 Oct

Received 27 Oct

Acknowledgement received 28 Oct

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Guest NATTIE

yep Unarranged Borrowing and because it fell over two charging periods but as I am sure you know by now, claim it back

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