DLC and HFC

[Markb03]

Hello all and can I say great help site from what I read.

 

Now I need some help.

 

I am writing this in behalf of my partner who has the debt.

 

Early last year she took out a credit agreement with PC world who use HFC for the credit. She then about a month later had her card stolen and quite a bit of money stolen which we had got back in the end. We then switched banks and moved house. We have also recently had a baby and with the costs of bills and rent we are just about struggling each month.

 

Now HFC have obviously got DLC involved to collect the debt. They are contacting her at work though and it is rather embarrassing for her plus she is really not allowed personal calls at work. The debt in question is £750 and we would like to pay this asap but with other outgoings we cant pay it as soon as we would like.

 

The calls at work are starting to stress my partner out and they have also called the house phone. I don't want to change my home number as it houses our broadband and I have had it a while now.

 

Would my partner be in a position to make a offer on what she can afford. DLC earlier asked her to pay the full amount and then asked why she could not when she told them no.

 

And advice is greatly appreciated

 

Thanks you

[Guest The Terminator]

I wouldn't take these muppets to seriously I've had a few run in's with them.Just write a letter to them telling them that all communication should be in writing and that you will report them to the OFT for not following their guidelines which you can find on this forum.Also quote to them that they are in breach of Section 127 of the Communications Act(2003) and S1 of the Protection from Harrassement Act(1997) which are both criminal offences.It will also help if you point out to them that they are not the original creditor and can they prove that they have been assigned or have the authority of the original creditor to act on their behalf.

[poochball]

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear about your partners troubles.

 

Yes make DLC an offer based on what you can realistically afford. Work out all your partner's expenses and anything that is left can be used to pay off the Debt with DLC.

 

Write DLC a letter along with an Income and expenditure. More than likely they will accept but if not begin making payments anyway because this looks good if the decide to take the matter to a County Court.

 

Also ask them not ring. You are in your rights to ask DLC to delete any telephone numbers they have from you on their system and make all communication as per the above post.

 

If you need me to provide any examples of the documents I mention then let me know.

 

I have been in the same situation and managed to claw my way back .

[Markb03]

Could someone please tell me what rights I would need to tell them I have in regards to deleting my Home number and my partners work number.

 

Thanks for all the info given in this thread to so far

[Laiste]

Dear Mark,

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. I have lots of experience of dealing with HFC and DLC! In fact I'm currently embroiled in a Court case with HFC. Don't panic though, it is unlikely they will take proceedings against you for such a small amount, my debt outstanding is large, so its a different ball game.

 

What you need to do is send them a letter stating that all calls to home and work telephone numbers, must cease immediately. Tell them if they continue, their actions will constitute a breach of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, s127 of The Communications Act 2003 and are also a breach of s1 of The Protection From Harassment Act 1997 and will be reported to the relevant authorities.

 

Have you checked your statements to see if penalty charges have been levied at any point? You don't want to pay a penny more than you have to!

 

Above all, don't worry, these situations can be sorted out! If you fancy an interesting read, go to Legalities, then on the first page, look for the thread with the title Curious twist on two CCA requests...... that's my saga with HFC and also Egg. I've had fun and games with both and it will give you an idea what these companies sometimes get up to!

 

Hope this helps,

 

Laiste.

[tifo]

you can also change your telephone number and it will not affect your broadband as you are not moving the line. Speak to your ISP first but it makes no difference to them as the broadband is on the line from BT (or NTL etc).

[Markb03]

you can also change your telephone number and it will not affect your broadband as you are not moving the line. Speak to your ISP first but it makes no difference to them as the broadband is on the line from BT (or NTL etc).

 

 

I don't want to change my number. I should not have to. This number is known to my work, family and friends.

[spotnot]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

 

This is the link to the letter about telephone harassment.

 

Also it costs about £10 to buy a telephone recording device from Maplins. I think the product code is MA066 or something similar. Its available from the Maplins website.

 

Spot

[djweeble]

Yes make DLC an offer based on what you can realistically afford. Work out all your partner's expenses and anything that is left can be used to pay off the Debt with DLC.

 

Write DLC a letter along with an Income and expenditure. More than likely they will accept but if not begin making payments anyway because this looks good if the decide to take the matter to a County Court.

 

NO, NO, NO.........

 

DO NOT make any sort of offer to DLC, if they are not the legal owners of the debt tell them in no uncertain terms to fupp off, they will have to hand the debt back and you will be in a better position to deal with HFC personally.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that there's quite an amount of charges on the debt too, charges that may even wipe it out if you go down the reclaiming route.

 

Follow Terminators advice.

[Markb03]

I have just rang them and they have removed her works number and I told them I would only talk to them via email or post.

[PriorityOne]

Have you sent them a CCA request in order to ascertain if they actually own the debt or not ? That is what Terminator and djweeble are referring to. I think it's in the Bank Templates section... Letter N. You need to enclose a cheque for £1 and make sure it's sent by Recorded Delivery because they only have 12 days from signature to comply. After that they will be in default and the debt cannot be enforced by them.

[Laiste]

Hi Mark,

 

With regard to CCA requests, the applicable time for compliance is 12 working days and if after one month you haven't received the documents, the owner of the debt will have committed a criminal offence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It is always advisable to send a £1.00 postal order as opposed to a cheque, that way you are not revealing any of your bank details. Don't send cash, as there is no way to prove that you enclosed money.

 

I think it is also worth pointing out, that unless the credit agreement doesn't exist, for eg. it's lost or they didn't retain it, or there is something wrong with the agreement, perhaps it's illegible, the debt will be enforceable even if they produce the agreement after the one month. They don't have to get a Court order to enforce the debt, they would simply commence proceedings in the usual way. I know this to be the case, as its happened twice to me, no agreement forthcoming in the prescribed timescale and both c/c's started proceedings without obtaining permission to do so!

 

I think it would be a good idea to do a SAR to get complete statements for the life of the a/c. That way you can discover if they have applied penalty charges. Don't pay a penny more than you have to!

 

Best of Luck!

 

Laiste.

[tifo]

when you get to court and state they haven't complied with your CCA request in time, the judge would not be too happy with them. They would still need to produce a copy for the court and you can then ask for it.

[PriorityOne]

I think it is also worth pointing out, that unless the credit agreement doesn't exist, for eg. it's lost or they didn't retain it, or there is something wrong with the agreement, perhaps it's illegible, the debt will be enforceable even if they produce the agreement after the one month. They don't have to get a Court order to enforce the debt, they would simply commence proceedings in the usual way. I know this to be the case, as its happened twice to me, no agreement forthcoming in the prescribed timescale and both c/c's started proceedings without obtaining permission to do so!

 

If they do not produce the CCA within the one calendar month after the 12 day deadline for defaulting, it is a criminal offence, so where they might stamp, threaten amd throw loads of dummies out of prams, etc. it seems unlikely that they would actually risk going to court to face a heavy fine and an angry judge.

 

Although you say they started court proceedings, did they actually go through with it... or was it another scare tactic ?

[Laiste]

Hi PriorityOne,

 

Sorry, but your comments are innacurate. Yes its true that a District Judge is not going to be at all happy with any Company that fails to provide the documents within the prescribed timescale, as they are are supposed to follow the CCA 1974 to the letter. Further on this point, the fact that their very business is based upon the CCA 1974, you would expect, or rather the Judge would expect them to comply fully with their legal obligations. It most certainly does not bode well for any Company if they annoy a Judge!

 

That said, the offence they have committed is criminal, which is not a matter dealt with by the County Court. They are not going to face a heavy fine, as you state in your post, as the sanction for a criminal offence must come from the magistrates court! Why does it seem unlikely to you that they would go to Court? They are going to the County Court to enforce the contract, essentially an outstanding debt, they are not there to answer a criminal charge. The Judge won't be happy with their conduct, but he is dealing with the civil matter before him, nothing else.

 

Yes they both started and continued with legal proceedings, which hardly fits with your impression that they are frightened of going to Court. Believe me, there are certain things that will have these Companies running for the hills, this issue isn't one of them!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[tifo]

That said, the offence they have committed is criminal, which is not a matter dealt with by the County Court. They are not going to face a heavy fine, as you state in your post, as the sanction for a criminal offence must come from the magistrates court!

 

So how does one force them into the magistrates court to face criminal charges? For example, if they took me to court over my debt, do i tell the judge that as this is in dispute to stay the judgement, and then also inform him/her that they are facing criminal proceedings from me under the CCA?

[Laiste]

Hi Tifo,

 

Look at the available options, the police will not be interested. You could take out a private prosecution(expensive), which will more than likely be stopped by the CPS. The only chance really is to get the one of the regulatory bodies eg, the FSA, OFT to prosecute. Will they do that? In my opinion its unlikely, unless enough people complain to them about the same Company continually not complying with CCA's. Hence, why I said this is not an issue the banks c/s's are worried about! The chances of them being prosecuted are very small indeed, so where's the incentive for them to behave lawfully? There isn't one!

 

The debt is a separate issue from their criminal conduct. The debt can still be enforced by the Court if the agreement conforms to the requirements of the CCA 1974. You might think that their conduct merits their case being struck out, in reality a Judge will not see the situation that way, unfortunately! The reasoning behind that is, their behaviour does not excuse a person from having to pay the debt.

 

This is probably not the answer you wanted, sorry!

 

Laiste.

[PriorityOne]

That said, the offence they have committed is criminal, which is not a matter dealt with by the County Court. They are not going to face a heavy fine, as you state in your post, as the sanction for a criminal offence must come from the magistrates court! Why does it seem unlikely to you that they would go to Court? They are going to the County Court to enforce the contract, essentially an outstanding debt, they are not there to answer a criminal charge. The Judge won't be happy with their conduct, but he is dealing with the civil matter before him, nothing else.

 

 

Apologies... reads like I have my wires crossed. If the docs. cannot be produced within the time frame, they can be reported to various bodies for a criminal offence... I know that doesn't happen in a County Court, but it wouldn't go down very well in one either, as you say.

 

You say that you have been taken to court despite of them being late with the docs.... I thought it unlikely that they would proceed and have this fact brought before the attention of the court. What was the end result in your case ? Did they win or did you ? I was hoping to use the "criminal offence" bit to my DCAs, so this info. would be really useful in order to know if I'm wasting my time or not.

[Laiste]

To get the full picture of what went on, you really need to read my thread as things have not been straightforward!

 

The abridged version of what went on is this. With Egg when we filed our lengthy counter-claim, they immediately filed a Notice of Discontinuance, they ran away in effect! So we will be going after them. With HFC the trial was scheduled for last Tuesday until at the 11th hour, they filed an app notice, saying they hadn't received Court directions, so the trial was vacated(cancelled) to be re-arranged for as yet an unspecified date.

 

I don't want to hijack Mark's thread, so if you have further Q's I think its a good idea if you put a post in my thread or PM me.

 

Laiste.

[PriorityOne]

Can you post me a link to your thread please ? No worries.... found it.

[tifo]

when it goes to County Court, the judge has a remit to look at the DEBT only between the debtor and creditor. Of course, he/she may not be too happy that they have committed a criminal offence, but that is not the case they are judging, so therefore they cannot opinionate on this.

 

The criminal offence is a separate issue to the debt and DCA's know this very well, hence are not too bothered as they know no action will be taken for that. If they have an agreement, they will produce it in court.

 

So, in the end, the CCA may not matter too much for the debtor, unless they cannot produce an agreement at all.

[PriorityOne]

The criminal offence is a separate issue to the debt and DCA's know this very well, hence are not too bothered as they know no action will be taken for that. If they have an agreement, they will produce it in court.

 

So, in the end, the CCA may not matter too much for the debtor, unless they cannot produce an agreement at all.

 

What is the point of a legal time frame, if it can be abused like this ? Are DCAs just given a tut tut for producing a CCA months later in court ? Am 3/4 way through Laiste's thread and it's a nightmare... !

[Laiste]

Hi Tifo & PriorityOne,

 

Don't be too disheartened! Non compliance adds to the overall bad impression that these companies create in the Judge's mind. Plus the fact, many of them harass you when the matter is in dispute, which gives you further legal ammunition to claim compensation from them. They are probably more frightened about someone reporting them to the police, for such offences! Its all about finding different ways of needling them, for me, this is very much like a game of chess!

 

Additionally, you have to remember that given the ineptitude of these companies, if they do manage to produce the agreement, chances are there will be something wrong with it, which can render the contract unenforceable. There are very strict rules under the CCA 1974 as to form and content of an agreement, if they breach those, they are unlikely to be able to enforce it! The more law you read, the more fascinating discoveries you make that you can use to your advantage....!

 

Glad you're enjoying my thread PriorityOne!

 

Laiste.

[PriorityOne]

Its all about finding different ways of needling them, for me, this is very much like a game of chess!

 

Totally agree.. one of my mottos : "Life is like a game of chess, if in doubt... move a pawn"

 

Laiste, I have no idea how you have kept your sanity..!! I haven't finished reading your thread yet, but will be following your progress !!

 

[Laiste]

You're assuming I was sane to begin with.....!LOL:D

 

There are many ways to win the battle with these companies, you just have to look for their mistakes and believe me, they make lots!

 

Laiste.