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    • Capital assessments are based on the:   amount or value of the asset at the time of the application outcome of checks carried out to protect against fraud As with income assessments the partner's share of the equity is included in these calculations - unless there is contrary interest. Just found the above in the law society website.  So am I screwed.  So confused.   
    • I am bound to say that their alleged contract is probably the weirdest I have seen. Considering it is supposed to be a serious legal contract to set out the conditions under which CEL manage the parking on land that does not belong to them it leaves a lot to be desired.   For a start it does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice which is   7.3 a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.   So no mention of hours: no mention of types of vehicle restrictions: no mention of who is responsible for the erection and maintenance of signage   and much more serious -no mention that CEL have to comply with the BPA Code of conduct-that one is listed on 7.1.    All it states is that the operator can pursue outstanding PCNs in accordance with the COP but that is not the same as saying that CEL will abide by the CoP which it must say.   Also AFAIK the only entity that can pursue for trespass is the land owner regardless of what this quasi agreement says. There is also no mention of the financial aspect of the arrangement nor how the long it lasts and what notice is required for either side to terminate.     It might be worth writing [not emailing ] to Medburn Estates asking them to confirm if this is the only agreement with CEL and whether they think it right that CEL have not received planning permission for their signs from the Council rendering their signs illegal which is more serious than unlawful and therefore all PCNs issued are worthless and should not have been issued as it is impossible to form a contract with motorists when the signs are illegal.   Also that as CEL are their agents Medburn Estates LTD are responsible for the actions of their agents. You could also ask them to cofirm that the signature on the paper is that of their Director, Anthony Brown and whether their copy has a counter signature of a CEL representative.   Carry on that CEL are taking you to Court and as another Judge has asked a Landowner to appear in front of him to explain their contract, whether it might be in the best interest of Medway to have a serious conversation with CEL to avoid any possible  embarrassments in your  [ie Laluna] Court appearance.   I have not looked much at your WS though it is looking good.   I would have mentioned that as they failed to comply with  Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007.   that they are in breach of their agreement CoP with BPA to keep to all the legal requirements in running their parking  operations.   It calls into question their right to apply for motorists data from the DVLA.   I would wait for their WS to arrive so that you can pick holes in that too. however watch that if they are late that you send yours off just within the Court guidelines.   What you are tying to do with your WS is to put your side of the case plus put CEL in as bad a light as possible for them to  decide that they don't really want to go to Court after all.
    • UncleB - where you write "This could lead you to facing the Bank in Court..."   1stly -  would that mean now?  by remote hearing?  Or when the courts open after the summer?   2ndly - Does the application for set aside automatically prevent the B hearing going ahead?   3rdly - Will sending in an application to have the B petition set aside mean that I have to disclose an address for service?   I can only give a mailing address   4thly - Could having an early (remote) set aside hearing potentially quicken up the process for the bank if I am obliged to give them a suitable place for service?  At the moment I assume the hearing was adjourned for lack of physical service.   I want/ need to get a set aside.  But don't want to shoot myself in the foot.  
    • Where I have sight of a letter which states the following: "a) the case is removed from scheduled date and time on the court list forthwith    b) the case will be re-listed on the 1st open date after x few months, a date to be advised" Is there any way a hearing would be any earlier than suggested?  Lockdown closed courts but may they open early?    Could the bank ask it to be brought forward even with lockdown still in place officially til end July?    Would that depend on them physically serving a b petition?   Could the 1st open date be any time up to Christmas with such a potential back log of cases?  
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Seahorse

Seahorse v RBoS **WON **

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Having got my head around all this with starting my battle with Cabot (who really have p****d me off big time), I've started down the road with the RBoS over their unlawful charges. Decided to start off nicely with them, and went to my local branch to speak to an advisor. Let them know my concerns over recent charges (I last spoke to them in the middle of December without anyone getting back to me), and she has promised I'll hear back about it soon. BUT! Next question was, How can I get hold of previous statement? I think alarm bells were going off by then, but she is arranging to get ALL my statements, 13 years worth, for both accounts to me. Costing £20 as it's 2 accounts. I thought that this might be the way to start before banging off a demand for them. Get serious later if they fail to materialise. I'll take everything from there once they get here, as per the procedures outlined on the Forum.

 

However, I'm sure I read somewhere that in Scotland, you can chase them up for more than 6 years worth of charges. Does anyone know if this is correct, or should I just concentrate on the last 6 years regardless:idea:

 

Seahorse

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However, I'm sure I read somewhere that in Scotland, you can chase them up for more than 6 years worth of charges. Does anyone know if this is correct, or should I just concentrate on the last 6 years regardless:idea:

 

Seahorse

 

Just read on another Forum that max in Scotland is 5 years. Anybody know for sure?

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Parachute account opened today with Lloyds TSB. No problem with adverse credit, except it's a very basic account. Hopefully not required, but you never know ;)

 

Seahorse

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Statements arrived but only from 1999. Still, it's a start, and no SAR needed. Unfortunately, I'm out of the country for a month, so the suspense is going to be murder. Looking forward to getting back and getting my spreadsheet filled in. ;)

 

Seahorse

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Well, how about that!?!? The missus has just let me know more statements have arrived going back to 1997, so I guess I'll have to read up on claiming back further than the 5 year Scottish limit. Anyone who knows much about that are more than welcome to put in their tuppeny worth here. Please!!! :o

 

Seahorse

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NOW I'm angry!!!! Slightly O/T but still on the subject of the RBS.

 

Just had a call from the missus. We have a loan with them, and the usual date for it to come out is the middle of the month. In November we asked for it to change to the last banking day of the month. 15th December, bump. Out it comes. Went in to complain, was told it would now be sorted. Next thing is, a letter today saying we have defaulted on our payments and they expected a payment mid January!!!!! So obviously, they HAVEN'T changed our D/D date AGAIN!!!! So I guess that's more charges, possibly a default on my credit file, all because someone can't do their job properly. I AM JUST SO MAD!!!

 

It almost seems as if they know I'm going to be starting proceedings against them next month when I get home and are acting out of spite. But of course, they can't possibly know who I am from my user ID on here, so the only other explanation I can deduce is that they are total imbeciles. Allegedly.

 

No more Mr Nice Guy.

 

Seahorse

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Hey SH, just so you know ppl are reading this, thought I'd say hello!! Not really sure with Scottish limits but sure someone can help. Good luck with it all.

 

With regards to your loan, if you have made contact with them in November and recently they should have footprints on your account that will prove you did make those calls. If they say there isn't, then write a very stern letter demanding them to resolve it - explain what you've done here and tell them you expect them to solve it and leave your credit file entact.

 

If they don't sort it, go for a SAR for your loan and instruct them you want all footprints on the account included. That should clear things up.

 

Btw, if you know this excuse the patronising explanation, but a footprint is a log that anyone who you speak to needs to leave on your account explaining what was said in the conversation.

 

HTH!!!


If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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Hey SH, back again. Just been reading someone else's thread and this "20 year limit in Scotland" was linked in it. The heading made me think to direct you to it, not read it so don't know if it will be of use but should make some interesting reading for you!


If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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AHA. Thanks for the link Taff. I've still got another week here, so plenty of time to read and learn before I get back and tear into them. I know there will be a footprint, cos I watched her log my complaint into her system the first time around. I'm STILL waiting to hear about getting a couple of charges refunded that I asked about before venturing on here, so they have had enough time to be helpful, and I know all my queries since about June are in there too. It was all done in my branch face to face, which is why I can't understand their ineptitude.

 

Now all I get is downright obstructiveness. The thing is, I remortgaged with them, and their attitude seems to be, they have me doing all my banking with them, so they just don't care any more. Well, the gloves are off. No piddly wee 5 year limit now, they are going to have to refund the lot.

 

Emma, in case you are reading this, why didn't you just do your job properly, you silly wee girl?

 

Looks like I'm going to be very busy from now on. I think I'd best plan a timetable properly so I don't lose track of where everything is at.

 

Seahorse

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Well, having just read the thread and taken over an hour at it, my eyes have packed up for a while. (Silly me forgot to bring my specs to the States with me) However, it all got a bit heated in there, and I'm not sure there is a legal basis for going back further than the 5 years. However, it also appears that the banks are not sure of their ground either, and would prefer to settle rather than try it out in court. I assume on the basis that, although they may be in the right regarding the limitations, they would still need to defend their position regarding their charges. If I do go down this route, AND claim for contractual interest, over a period of 13 odd years, it might well come to the point where I'll need to to consult a lawyer.

 

I'll just have to be patient until I can get my hands on my statements. :|

 

Seahorse

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Good luck Seahorse :) I was only with RBoS for 3 years banking and they took just under £800. Sent my preliminary and they received that today, so will now have to wait for there response.


RBoS

Settled At LBA £798

 

Barclaycard

Defence Filed, Waiting For Court Date

 

HSBC

LBA Sent 15-05-07, Still No Reply

 

Barclays

LBA Received 14-05-07, 2nd Holding Letter Sent To Me Stating Should Have Answer By 09-07-07

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Well, now I am convinced they DO read my posts, and they do know who I am. (Being paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T out to get you!!! ;))

 

Just spoken to the missus, who tells me the branch have become suddenly VERY helpful.. We shouldn't have had the letter, no charges on our account etc, etc. And we'll keep an check on your account all week to make sure nothing happens that shouldn't. WTF???? All very weird.

 

Oh, well. This time next week I should be at home and able to sit down and tot up my spreadsheet, then hit them with my prelim.

 

Seahorse

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Good luck Seahorse :) I was only with RBoS for 3 years banking and they took just under £800. Sent my preliminary and they received that today, so will now have to wait for there response.

 

I was with RBOS for about 3 years too & I'm looking at just under £2000 in charges..........in one month I actually got stung for £420!!!!!!!


RBOS - Settled in Full

MBNA - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Sent, Data received, offer rejected, LBA sent, another offer made & rejected.Settled

CAP 1 - SAR Sent, Data received, offer rejected, LBA sent. Due to illness no further progress

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i JUST GOT BACK HOME YESTERDAY, BUT JETLAG HAS ME UP AT SILLY O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING PLAYING WITH MY CHARGES (oops, caps lock :)) I think this is goint to take a little longer than I thought. So far, on our first account, from Nov 97 up to March 01, it's come to £1,404. NOT including interest charged, and not adding any interest at ll. No contractual, or statutory. All I'm thinking is B*&&$Y HELL!!! :eek: How much is the whole lot going to add up to??? I'll just have to plough on and see, I guess. Oh, well. Back to the spready.

 

Seahorse

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Well, that's the first account done. Just a smidgin over 3k, before adding in contractual. There's also a few dodgy looking charges that seem to be way over the normal fees for the account, but I don't think I'd be able to pin them down as unfair charges, so I'll ignore them in the meantime. I have a feeling I'm going to need a solicitor if I go down the route of contractual, so I'll have to try to get the legalities fixed in my head first.

 

Right, now to start on the second account. Haven't had it open as long, but as it is supposed to be our bill paying account, I have a feeling that's where a lot of the charges will be. Here goes...

 

Seahorse

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Well, that's the first account done. Just a smidgin over 3k, before adding in contractual. There's also a few dodgy looking charges that seem to be way over the normal fees for the account, but I don't think I'd be able to pin them down as unfair charges, so I'll ignore them in the meantime. I have a feeling I'm going to need a solicitor if I go down the route of contractual, so I'll have to try to get the legalities fixed in my head first.

 

Right, now to start on the second account. Haven't had it open as long, but as it is supposed to be our bill paying account, I have a feeling that's where a lot of the charges will be. Here goes...

 

Seahorse

 

This may help with the charges

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland-bank/57649-rbs-list-all-charges.html

 

There are quite a few cases of people winning with contractual interest without using a solicitor, are you sure you want to involve one?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/45815-contractual-interest-another-settlement.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/25932-garyh-hsbc-including-contractual.html


 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

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There are quite a few cases of people winning with contractual interest without using a solicitor, are you sure you want to involve one?

 

Cheers for that lively. That shows pretty much what I'm claiming for. The ones I'm not too sure about vary between £15 (whch ties in with monthly charge for Royalties. Yes, silly me but back to a normal acc now), to £43. I can't see how to split it out, but I guess part of anything over and above the Royalties fee will be charges for unauthorised OD. There are seperate £3 charges, and I'm guessing too that they will be an authorized OD fee. I think I'll be cheeky and ask my branch to clarify, cos over the nearly 10 years, it'll ramp the amount up a fair bit.

 

No, not sure about a solicitor. But bearing in mind the costs involved in going for quite a hefty refund, I'd like to have a bit of muscle in my corner. Perhaps if I can understand in my own mind exactly why it's fair to claim the contractual, it won't be necessary. But at the moment, I'm having trouble convincing myself it would be fair, so how to persuade a judge in that case?

 

What I really need to do is go through all the contractual cases and see if I can make it all gel in my head.

 

Anyhoo... need to take a break and sort the horses out. :)

 

Seahorse

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Hey SH. Reference your varying charges, you are correct, you need to strip out royalties charges from it then claim back the rest. I've got a definitive explanation of deciphering RBS charges here. That along with lively's list of charges should sort you out..


If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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OK, I've now got the info I need regarding fees (but I'm almost going to wish I hadn't as I'm going to have to sort through several hundred statements again ;) I said ALMOST).

 

Interest paying current account - Free

Royalties - £6/month

Royalties gold - £12/month

Royalties premier - £15/month

 

How daft was I? Fees for benefits I hardly use, if at all. Oh, except for preferential interest rates on a loan I probably wouldn't have needed if it hadn't been for them and their Turpin-like activities.

 

OK, spready time again, and by heck, is this going to send the claim soaring. Woohoo!!!

 

Seahorse

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Oh, dear. I think I need to lie down. I've come over all soon-to-be-rich.

 

Discounting agreed fees, Royalties fees etc, I have come up with the following on my main account...

 

Total penalties - £4479.59

Interest on penalties - £215.97

Total RBos owe me - £4695.56

 

Enough to have my little heart pounding on it's own. But WAIT, there's MORE. If I pop in a rate of 29.9% (RBoS's unauthorized borrowing rate, I believe), all of a sudden, I find the blighters should REALLY be handing over a tidy little £21223.93!!!!

 

Just on one account. I need to finish off the spready for the other one tomorrow. OOERR, MISSUS. :o

 

Anyone think I should adjust the percentage, or does it seem reasonable to bash them with that figure? I'm going to have to spend a little time trawling the success stories for some indication of how they'll behave when faced with a claim like that.

 

Time for a rest. More financial shenanigins tomorrow.

 

Seahorse

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No this is the correct rate - any other and you're making it up which wouldn't look good. I believe you should also keep a note of the 8% calculations (for your reference only) so that should the judge refuse you CI (ok jumping a few steps now!) you can "settle" for 8%. Don't get carried away! The CI road is a long one......

 

Couple of people to look for - there are two site helpers who currently have CI claims going on with RBS - one is livelylad and the other is mcuth (I think?). Don't really know of the progress up to date as I've not been in their threads for a while. Another one to read through is this one. He has just successfully claimed CI against Barclaycard. The reason I find this so useful is his letter writing and arguments are so well put together.....


If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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Aye, I'm trying to pare out the relevant threads for inspiration Taff. Glenn's is particularly interesting, as I'm needing to go for Barclaycard too. I am getting it all straight in my head the more I read, but I'm needing to concentrate my efforts on the RBS and Cabot (or Car Boot as my missus likes to call them) until I have the time to sit back and wait for answers to prlims etc. Although I'm nearly there figure-wise with the RBS, I need to worry away att a rough draft for the letter with them. CarBoot(Europe) I can ignore for a few days, as their statutory time is nearly up, but I'm going to have to go through another delay when I bang in a CCA to their invisible partners, Kings Hill No 1 (or Cabot Financial (UK) as they seem to prefer now). More rope required there methinks, to allow them to perform the old Saddam Hussein party trick. There are a couple of REALLY interesting threads involving that particular shower of rogues. (It's OK mods, it can't be libel, as Mr Maynard used the term to describe me in an official publication, so I'd just hit him with a couter claim if he tried to sue. Well, not me personally, but us rogue customers in general ;))

 

STILL not sync'd with UK time, so it's work into the wee small hours time again. :)

 

Seahorse

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OK, latest update, then I must try to get some sleep.

 

Yes, I'm going to try the CI route, and see what Mr Judge thinks in a few months time (see, mentally preparing for this one to go all the way). Reason being is, even without the compound interest, figures are so big anyway it's going to be an expensive risk, so I might as well prepare for a hard slog. Fortunately, I'm not desperate for the cash, so I'm not worried how long this drags on for, and the other threads have convinced me I'll win in the end.

 

Right, as mentioned yesterday, final tally for the main account is £21,223.93. Just finished the second account, and it tots up to a nice, healthy £9,080.59. Making a Grand Total of £30,304.52

 

There were a few suspect entries knocking about that I couldn't quite pin down, so I've given them the benefit of the doubt. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it matters too much overall. What's a couple of hundred really, when it's catapulted into the realms of tens of thousands.

 

Even if it ends up in court and I get knocked back to the 8% SI, it will still mean a rather respectable £11k or so. Not exactly a consolation prize, and still better in my pocket than theirs.

 

Time for a nap. My brain hurts.

 

Seahorse

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OK, here's my prelim ready to go off. If anybody spots anything glaringly off with it, please let me know before I pop it down to the post office. ;)

 

Customer Relations Manager

The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc

Freepost, PO Box 1727

Edinburgh EH12 9JN

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxxx and xxxx. SORT CODE: xx-xx-xx

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account since 10th November 1997.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your actual costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006, and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

 

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now. As a result of such concealment, it is my belief that the Statute of Limitations does not apply in this case, and you will note that I am requesting that you refund to me those charges which I deem unlawful from the date of the first statement of account that is available to me, rather than restricting my claim to a five year period.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £7,222.35, plus £387.53 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £7,609.88. I also request that you refund me £22648.76 in contractual interest, which I have calculated as of the date of this letter at your unauthorised overdraft rate of 29.84%. This brings my total to £30,258.64.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. I believe that this applies to unauthorised drawings by you as well as unauthorised drawings by me. I therefore believe that I am entitled to ask for this rate and further that it is justifiable under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on your unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

 

Seahorse

 

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Well, reply to my prelim received yesterday with the usual, we are invstigating blurb. OK, just need to wait out the fortnight now, and have a think about the next stage.

 

However, I've not been sitting on me jacksey twiddling my thumbs aimlessly. I've been scouring the threads for a glimmer of hope that I might be able to go down the Ordinary Cause route on my own, but it looks like I'll have to get myself a solicitor after all. There's absolutely no prospect of splitting a claim this big to get it in under the limits for summary cause, never mind small claims, so it's off to Yellow Pages to let my fingers do the walking.

 

Lively, I've had a look at the threads you mentioned, but this is going to be in Scotland, and for considerably more than those claims. I really do think I need to get the heavies in. :(

 

Seahorse

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