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lobo200

Paragon have my debt to Arrow Global, what to do next?

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Hi, this is my first time posting, but having had debt problems in the past I have been referring back to this site as and when :)

 

 

Now, onto the main point :)

 

I have an unsecured loan with Paragon taken out in 1998 for 13k, I ran into problems in late 1999 due to unemployment and subsequently agreed to an arrangement for reduced payments, I then get a job and payments increase slightly.

 

3 years later I receive a statement from them and the debt had grown to 20k, they hadn't frozen interest and their argument was there was no agreement to freeze interest.

 

No further action taken on this part, payments continue, and while these are reduced payments, I have not missed a single one.

 

Paragon write to me in January 2006, offering to settle the debt for £5000. at this point I couldn't raise the cash so payments continued as normal.

 

Over the 6 years I increased payments from £35 to £62.

 

I then receive a letter from Arrow Global Receivables mid-December advising me they have been assigned the outstanding balance of 20k. they also advise that they are now the data controller of my personal data contained in the records of the account etc.

 

I called Arrow yesterday and they advised that it is policy to clear the debt by 2010 and that means payments of around £500 a month. I told them this was just not possible. I had an agreement with Paragon to pay £62 for the next 6 months at which point it would be reviewed. arrow did not accept this, telling me that any prior arrangements with Paragon are now null and void.

 

I told them of the offer from Paragon to settle for 5k back in January, they tell me that would still leave the balance 15k due.

 

Where it is at now....I can't make £500/month and they have advised me that as I can only make £62/month they will take it to court.

 

I have requested all data from Paragon as the conversations should have been recorded, including the payment arrangements. I have the letter from Paragon stating their offer last year to settle for £5000.

I cannot locate the debt on credit files with Experian or Equifax.

 

I'm not sure what approach I should be taking with this.

 

I'm annoyed that Paragon have apparently re-assigned the debt without my knowledge and despite me making regular payments to them and especially after having just agreed to a new increased payment arrangement for the next 6 months!

Can Arrow become the Data controller? My agreement and Credit Agreement was with Paragon (formerly universal credit)

 

Any advice/assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

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Additionally, if I find out that there is no clause on the CCA which allows Paragon to pass on my details to a third party, what are my options?

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I am in almost exactly same position as you, sorry to say, got a letter from Arrow after a phone call threatening a CCJ. Letter said pay up 28000 by 21/1.... yeah like anyone has that sort of money lying around, Originally started in 90s with 10k loan, paid every month as per aggt til lost job 2000, rang and they agreed freeze interest and payment aggt, paid exactly as agreed, 4 years later (yes 4 years) finally got them to send a statement, owed 20k, rang and they said they never agreed to freeze interest. Seems no statement is their way of concealing information. Anyway after one of their many calls where I had a disagreement with them they again agreed to reduce interest to 2%, promise of being put in writing - - nothing as expected then the phone call from Arrow Global. They said had bought the debt from Paragon. My ex wife who was joint lender and is paying them 20pw has heard nothing..

just thought add my twopenneth and see what comes back. I know that I was to blame for the non payments but we all do if we can don't we.

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hi chaps I don't want to detract from the problems you are having but I have spent all day trying to find who these are..last week i received a letter from a cbs transcom who said they had been given this debt of £148 to collect from arrow global... needless to say i have never heard of them and rang head office and a girl asked me if i had heard of paragon aka universal credit I said i do vaguely she said where it comes from..

the best thing about this is years ago i got in debt and had all creditors put on a consolidation order with an attachment of earning on my wages and thats been the case the last 15 years finished up paying some out of my pension ..last year got a signed sealed letter from court to say i have fully paid up ...told the girl this on the phone and sent her a copy of the letter.....yesterday got a phone call a man asking me for security details basically told him to p.....off two more to day silent calls

how would this go down they would be taking my court to court for not paying a debt are are they just stupid

 

sorry to digress but that clears up one thing..

 

kegi

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Hi Kegi, if your debt is for 148 was this part of the original consolidation order (administration order) then you have a good case to fight on.

good luck.

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stevie i was only commenting on your posts because I had never heard of these people I have'nt got a debt as i stated i paid it all off through court if they want to say I have then their fight is with county court not me ?... I have not heard a word from them since that first phone call:-)

 

as to your problems if it was me i would let it go to court ie no interest and you can only pay what you can afford took 20 years for me to pay them back 10k

 

best of luck

 

kegi

 

ps also as lobo was stating send them a cca and see what comes up considering that paragon took over from universal trust and in my case that was years ago they may not have the original agreements

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lobo - have you had any contact with a debt advice agency, like the CCCS?

 

They will help you to compile an Income and Expenditure sheet - basically a spreadsheet that shows what is coming in, what is going out and what priority debt you have.

 

We have one on this site that I set up myself >> HERE

 

If this shows that you can afford approx £62 per month then this is ALL you should pay, since increasing the figure under duress will only increase your problems and cause further hardship.

 

Should this company decide that it will take you to court for the debt, a Judge would want to know precisely how much you can afford to pay and would not look kindly upon them if the figure you showed the court matched the offer you had made directly.

 

There really is nothing more that you can do than to pay what you can afford. I can offer some assistance with these spreadsheets if you require it.


..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Hi Lobo

 

I had a major court run-in with Paragon a while ago over a Universal Credit agreement and I can testify that they are an absolute bunch of w*****s!!

 

I think you should S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Paragon immediately and do a CCA request to the DCA for a copy of the agreement etc. (templates for both can be found in library).

 

I'm sure that Universal Credit had a history of producing poorly drawn up agreements - have a Paragon business report somewhere that suggests this (will try to find) - mine was entirely unenforceable due to errors.

 

Also I SAR'd Paragon at the time and they couldn't produce a copy of my agreement with Universal Credit. [edited]


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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Hi Lobo, as I said earlier I am in a very similar position, I am considering affadavits from all in same situation to prove Paragon did agree then denied all knowledge. If you are prepared to do this let me know, I am willing and willing to supply a copy to all others if it will help them too.

Stevie1

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Let us be clear on the issue please. The OP has not indicated that this debt is not valid, simply that they are being asked to repay at a higher figure than they can afford.

 

Some posts seems to be suggesting that paperwork could potentially lead to this debt being avoided. This site does not condone such actions.


..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Hi again :)

 

jonni2bad, I've had CAB help about 6 years ago with a lot of my old debts and I still have the main structure of the financial statement which I will use.

 

I will send it to them when it comes to a point that I will start payments but that won't happen until they can prove the debt is now there's. I'm not going to give money to a company because they wrote to me telling me so. Paragon now want nothing to do with it and will not take any payments to me.

 

stevie1

I'll let you know, so far I've had no acknowledgement from either Paragon or CBS regarding the SAR & CCA requests but the cheques to pay for these have been cleared so the clock is ticking. I may be in contact with you once I have the required information.

 

I think the next point will be if the CCA agreement only states Paragon will disclose my personal data to companies within the group, what happens when they sell the debt to a company outside of the group?

 

I'm assuming then, that both companies are in violation of the DPA? What happens to the debt though?

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Thanks Lobo, let me know.

cheers

stevie1

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I'm having similar trouble with the monkeys from CBS transcom

 

Had a debt through citifinancial which i paid off in 2002- lost the confirmation letter

 

CBS contacted me saying I owe them and as i didnt have proof of payment were going to take legal action when i told em where to stick it

 

I obtained my credit report which clearly shows SATISFIED under that debt, still CBS wont accept it so I said fine go ahead and let your solicitor contact me and when i present to him my evidence see if he wants to take the case further

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Hi, didn't (haven't had chance) to send second letter yet, but have heard absolutely nothing from CBS or Global since sent first letter sent. Don't know if that is good or bad news yet, will keep you posted,

thanks

steve

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Hi Everyone,

A bit of an update on this.

I now have a copy of the Credit Agreement, well, two different copies oddly enough, with different dates, I'm assuming the most recent dated will supercede the previous?

Also, there is a disclosure statement on the data protection act saying that they will only disclose my data to companies within the Paragon group, Transcom & Arrow Global Receivables do not appear to be part of this group.

So have Paragon fouled up on this and went against the DPA by selling the debt (and my data) to a company outside of the group?

 

Would appreciate some advice please :) Do I have a good case to dispute their claimed ownership of the debt?

 

Thanks.

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Hi Everyone,

A bit of an update on this.

I now have a copy of the Credit Agreement, well, two different copies oddly enough, with different dates, I'm assuming the most recent dated will supercede the previous?

Also, there is a disclosure statement on the data protection act saying that they will only disclose my data to companies within the Paragon group, Transcom & Arrow Global Receivables do not appear to be part of this group.

So have Paragon fouled up on this and went against the DPA by selling the debt (and my data) to a company outside of the group?

 

Would appreciate some advice please :) Do I have a good case to dispute their claimed ownership of the debt?

 

Thanks.

 

Hi

 

How can there be 2 differing copies of the same agreement? Is it only the date that is different or is anything else changed?

 

Regards, Pam


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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There's quite a few differences, details of which group Ocoean Finance (as they were) belonged to, the dates seperate by about a week, but the back of the agreement differs where the older one they were part of Lloyds TSB and the one the week after they are part of the Paragon Group.

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Hmmmm! Very interesting.

 

So are you saying that Ocean Finance was part of LTSB to begin with but was then taken over by Paragon - and within a week??:confused: Very odd! Something smells decidedly fishy here!

 

Can you give some more details of these differences, e.g. the actual text that differs?

 

Also do they both have signatures on?

 

Regards, Pam


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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Have had a few calls from CBS transcom, unfortunately I was out, but no details as per my request for documentation, will have a look at following up my threat to report them.

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Hmmmm! Very interesting.

 

So are you saying that Ocean Finance was part of LTSB to begin with but was then taken over by Paragon - and within a week??:confused: Very odd! Something smells decidedly fishy here!

 

Can you give some more details of these differences, e.g. the actual text that differs?

 

Also do they both have signatures on?

 

Regards, Pam

 

They both have my signature on, the more recent agreement has their countersignature, the previous does not.

 

I've attached the differences,

 

1st cca is the older of the two.

 

I'd be interested to know if I do have a valid dispute on the Data Disclosure, the details on the agreement do say they will not disclose my data to third parties outside of the group.

 

Thanks.

paragon_1st_cca_a.jpg

paragon_1st_cca_b.jpg

paragon_2nd_cca_a.jpg

paragon_2nd_cca_b.jpg

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Have had a few calls from CBS transcom, unfortunately I was out, but no details as per my request for documentation, will have a look at following up my threat to report them.

 

Hi

 

Yes, do what you said you would. Don't want them thinking you're just another 'moaner' who won't follow through.:evil:

 

Regards, Pam


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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They both have my signature on, the more recent agreement has their countersignature, the previous does not.

 

I've attached the differences,

 

1st cca is the older of the two.

 

I'd be interested to know if I do have a valid dispute on the Data Disclosure, the details on the agreement do say they will not disclose my data to third parties outside of the group.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi

 

Oh, I see it was Universal Credit initially. They were a part of the TSB group until Paragon acquired them in 1998. What dates are the agreements and can you remember why there are 2 documents.

 

Regards, Pam


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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I can't remember why there are two documents, but the agreement was in 1998, so it's possible the agreements crossed over during the acquisition, that could explain it.

 

I am still looking at the validity of disputing Transcom's ownership of the Debt when the disclosure agreement states my details will not be passed to a 3rd party outside of the group however.

 

I'm not denying a debt exists, it does but I'm not accepting Transcoms claim of the debt belonging to them. I'm not really sure how far to take it.

 

Does the disclosure statement (as posted previously) stand up?

If so...

 

Paragon have unlawfully passed confidential information about me to a 3rd party

CBS have processed that data, that puts them in the frame?

CBS have also not complied with my SAR and are about a month overdue

 

What do you think?

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Hi Lobo

 

Sorry for the delay in responding to you but I have been trying to find some information for you.

 

I noticed that both Data protection notices on the agreements refer to the DPA 1984! not 1998. Is that the only reference to DPA or consent to share/process data on the agreement?

 

I have been trying to find what, if anything, was different in the 1984 version but haven't as yet been able to find the full Act since it was repealed when replaced by the 1998 one.

 

I have found the short script below outlining the data principles under that version. Note the parts I have highlighted.

 

I'm fairly sure that the 1984 Act would have been far less comprehensive then it's successor and it is just possible that the DPA statement on your agreement DOES limit use of your data to the Paragon Group only. I think to be certain though it would be best if you could get hold of the full text of the 1984 Act. Is there a library near you? I will keep googling but may not have any success.

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

 

UK Data Protection Act 1984 The UK has had a Data Protection act since 1984 which gave individuals rights as data subjects. These rights include giving access to data stored about us, a right to have inaccurate information corrected or removed and to claim compensation if stored information is misused. It has it's origins in the European Rights Convention, article 8 - giving individuals a right to respect for their private life.

The UK DP Act requires data users to register with the Data Protection Registrar indicating the data they intend to store, the processes which will be applied to it, and the use to which the data is put. Once registered the data user must then ensure that they comply with the principles of the Act.

Data Protection Principles

Personal Data must be

    • Obtained and processed, fairly and lawfully
    • Held only for lawful purposes as specified by the data user
    • Used only for purposes specified by the data user
    • Disclosed only to those specified by the data user
    • Adequate and Relevant and not excessive for the purposes specified by the data user
    • Accurate and up to date
    • Held for no longer than required for the purposes specified by the date user
    • Accessible to the individual
    • Properly secured from unlawful access and use.

     

     

     


VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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Hi Pam,

Thanks for that!

 

There is also this on the back of the same form, just above the DPA Disclosure statement

cca_back.jpg

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