ID cards - will you or won't you?

[Derfel]

Their claim that they will prevent £3bn a year of fraud, a figure which comes from the banks, and hardly an objective analysis, is just nodding to the idea of letting banks pass yet more cost onto us.

 

What's really telling though is the way they've gone about forcing this on us. Riding rough shot over the consultation process, filling committees with brain-dead morons sympathetic to passing legislation without argument, keeping costing secret, breaking manifesto promises to not make it compulsary, cynically lying about the compulsion, then bullying the house of lords with the salisbury convention.

 

Add to this that we already have enough problems with jobsworths who will always opt to believe a computer over a person (whether they've paid or not at a self-service checkout, whether you still have an account with a particular company, etc), and we have a database that is capable no end of problems to people's lives. The government can't even handle criminal records checks correctly, falsely accusing a few hundred people of having criminal records and not even apologising to them.

 

OK, anger vented. Don't want to go into reasons why it'll change the relationship between the individual and the state as I don't want to miss my train!

[breadline]

I always take a note book with me and write everything down.

 

I spent a week charting all symptoms and description and history of 14 years the Neurologist said i dont need to read this now as you are here! i had written it as my brain could not process on demand my body was gradually shutting down, it was an awful attitude i recieved, so i broke down. eventually found out i was at a serious level of lithium poisoning.

 

I harass the secretaries to send me copies of everything

YES so very important i insist on a copy of all blood test results that is how i diagnosed myself! the Hospital have recently lost to Lyme tests this passed month both mine and my sons if i had not of rang the GP for a copy of the results no one would be following it up....you have to be your own advocate

 

this also stood me in good stead when things went belly up regarding his treatment initially.

I am hoping mine will be backing for a case against a rude ignorant neurologist this year.

I had the lot, the MRI, bone scans, chest xrays and pathology reports. they have to give them to you, this is done on CD now and I can view on my computer at home.

Had no ideal regarding the CD????

I did request a copy of my MRI and EEG as i wanted them for my Lyme doctor but all my letters to the hospital were ignored and i was not up to pushing, but I'm back at it again now, did you request this with any special laws.

 

i have done the Data Protection Act on the GP thats how i found my disease, but not sure how to tackle the hospital.

 

 

SO any tips would help

Thanks

bready

 

Oh dear this is an ID card thread and its routed off, Battleaxe do you fancy opening a thread to help others gain help through Doctors notes and MRi's/ any hospital help realy.

Ive seen a few people stuck in situations on teh forum.

If we get these 2 posts moved could start it off.

May be "Requesting your Medical Notes" ??

I will leave it with you. ;-)

[Guest Battleaxe]

Karnevil or any MOD, could you move this to a new thread as suggested by Breadline? Much appreciated and thank you in advance

[demon_x_slash]

'Tis my thread, I don't mind you hijacking in the slightest! But yes, it may be clearer to people looking for that type of info to COPY those two posts into a new thread in NHS. Whichever mod is listening, PLEASE don't delete them, just copy them - it is so difficult to read a fragmented thread - if these can stay but the convo refer to ID cards from now on...? Acceptable? Ta if so

[demon_x_slash]

NO2ID:stop ID cards and the database state

 

[Watchdog attacked in battle over ID cards

 

January 9th, 2007 at 3:50 pm by andrew

 

 

Bill Goodwin writes in Computer Weekly:

The government has attacked its own information watchdog for failing to understand the workings of Whitehall, as it gears up to fight an order to publish confidential reports into the ID cards programme.

The Office of Government Commerce, which is part of HM Treasury, claimed in legal papers that, by ordering the publication of Gateway reviews on identity cards, the information commissioner had unreasonably rejected clear evidence that publication of the project reports would cause “substantial harm”.

The case, due to be decided in a four-day hearing at the Information Tribunal in March, could set a legal precedent that would force government departments to routinely publish Gateway reviews of public sector IT projects requested under the Freedom of Information Act, in line with a Computer Weekly campaign.

 

Apparently the OGC thinks that:

“Misquotation or out-of context quotation of frank and candid observations or comments could damage public confidence.”

 

The information commissioner’s response:

“No explanation is given as to why this category of report is particularly likely to be misunderstood as compared with other documents generated by public authorities.”]

Well, duh, I wonder why 'they' think that? Could it be that they don't want the information made public in the first place, not because it would be misconstrued, but because we would be able to see straight through it?

[Guest Battleaxe]

NO2ID:stop ID cards and the database state

 

Well, duh, I wonder why 'they' think that? Could it be that they don't want the information made public in the first place, not because it would be misconstrued, but because we would be able to see straight through it?

 

 

I am enjoying this, perhaps the Governemt is scared that we are becoming educated

[buzby]

Perish the thought! They'll want to close down CAG next!

[Guest Battleaxe]

We all know that hell will freeze over befor CAG is closed down

[JimmyTheOne]

Story click here.

[Guest Battleaxe]

When will they ever learn? Isn't the NHS data base enough of a hassle for them?

 

Oh it will be fun, if you have surgery to your eyes and the iris differs from the original biometric data...

[demon_x_slash]

Story click here.

 

ROTFL - is this the data that the Govt thought 'would mislead' us poor, stupid voters?? Funny, I don't think I've got the wrong impression from this at all

[Katy77]

I'm dead against ID cards. My question is 'why', not 'why not' really. It wont stop terrorism (even the US isn't trying to foist such an invasion of privacy on it's people) or make a noticable effect on benefit fraud, the technology will be hijacked by the criminal fraternity anyway and the governments record on these kinds of things is pretty poor, so 'why'?.

 

I recently accessed my credit record online to find out that the reason we have started to get telesales and unsolicited post etc. is because I've apparently said 'yes' on my electoral role records for my info to be shared which is complete nonsense. Someone from the council came to the door (showed a badge and papers) and updated our electoral role details and voila! They've ticked the box for me and allowed my details to be shared for whatever puproses it's deemed fit. Do they get any money for passing on the details? I wonder. I feel violated!

 

Just why do the government need this information on us? If they know where we are, what we're doing, who we're fraternising with whenever they want to, then things like the action taken by members of the CAG for example might be halted. We're already deprived of the liberty of protesting outside of our Parliament (which should be a fundamental right!) all in the name of security (the Terrorism Act) If they bring in measures or unfair laws or acts related to our freedoms or rights in the name of 'security' or whatever, how can we protest and take action when they can follow us in intimate detail? It is effectively selling away your identity, or it would be - if it wasn't actually us that had to pay for the privalage of become a barcode rather than an individual.

[fbnts]

Hi,

 

Well I personally don't have an issue with a national ID card, yes, as someone has posted already a lot of us already have one in the form of a driving license, but in my opinion it would be great to have a card the same size as a driving license but can be used as a combined driving license, passport, medical card etc.

 

Don't agree with the price though.

 

Just imagine being knocked down in the street and going to hospital close to death and they only find a driving license and then have to hope that your name and DOB is on their system so they know what life saving blood you need or what you are alergic to

 

OR

they find a ID card which they pass through the system and it tells them all they need to know

 

i know which I would choose.

 

Like someone has already said, if you have nothing to hide then whats the problem?

 

Just my thoughts anyhow

 

Tom

[Guest Battleaxe]

Tom,

 

In the ideal world this would be ok, but we know that this is not what is intended and it will never get to the stage of your idealism. Heck the government can't even get the NHS data base off the ground because of the problems already encountered. The passport fiasco which happens every summer and now the biometric data can't be read properly, are also examples. What would happen if one vital part of your data needed in an emergency was not accessible, as happens frequently with the NHS computer system? When I was part of the NHS pilot study, I was locked more times than I could access, because of systems failures. The cumbersome log on procedures were nightmare, so in the end I refused to use the NHS Data Pilot Sytem. An ohour of my vital working day was wasted because of system failures I was missing important emails, so had to revert to using the inhouse NHS system. We were chosen to take part in the trial, because we were considered 'computer literate'. We were supposed to be able to work from home and access the system. It just didn't work either from home, or the hospital. For the last twelve months of my employment I cannot think of one person in the Trust who kept using the the system.

 

I heard something this morning on News 24 about the Government putting everyones details on a data base, but I was only half awake, guess I will have to read the paper to see if I can find the article.

[buzby]

Hi,

 

Like someone has already said, if you have nothing to hide then whats the problem?

 

Tom

 

As others have already pointed out - it has nothing to do with you as an individual, just that all your data will be consolidated into a central source that can be manipulated and sold (legally and illegally) meaning your ID card will be instrumental in you LOSING your identity forever.

[demon_x_slash]

Tom - think how much junk mail and sales calls you get at the moment. If you're a typical CAG member, you'll have done your best to always tick the Opt-Out box on contracts, always refused to be put on a mailing list for yet more junk...

There is NO word yet, halfway through the proposals, on whether the Government intend to sell your data, any aspect of your data, on to their version of 'carefully selected companies'. This is another angle that people forget - information is worth three times its weight in gold in this day and age, and the new ID database will be a little goldmine for this and future Governments. The Government already pass on details of your medical records and operations to a data collation and distribution company...

 

Light Blue Touchpaper » Anonymous data that isn’t

AOL has recently been embarrassed after it released data on the searches performed by 658,000 subscribers. Their names had been replaced by numbers, but this was not enough to stop personal information leaking. The AOL folks just didn’t understand that protecting data using de-identification is hard.

They are not alone. An NHS document obtained under the Freedom of Information Act describes how officials are building a “Secondary Uses Service” which will contain large amounts of personal health information harvested from hospital and other records. It’s proposed that ever-larger numbers of people will have access to this information as it is progressively de-identified. It seems that officials are just beginning to realise how difficult it will be to protect patient privacy — especially as your deidentified medical record will generally have your postcode. There are only a few houses at each postcode; knowing that, plus a patient’s age, usually tells you whose record it is. The NHS proposes to set up an “Information Governance Board” to think about the problem. Meanwhile, system development steams ahead.

Clearly, the uses and limitations of anonymisation ought to be more widely understood.

 

and

 

The Big Opt Out » Hidden uses of medical records

 

"There is a hidden use of your medical records that the Department of Health does not tell patients about..."