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    • /\   This is a bit obsessive isn't it? 
    • March 23: As the coronavirus crisis escalates, the UK is placed into lockdown with strict limitations on travel. The Government guidelines state: “You should not be visiting family members who do not live in your home.” The prime minister tells the UK public they "must stay at home". People are warned not to meet friends or family members they do not live with. Those with symptoms had already been told to self-isolate     Friday 27 March: Downing Street On the day Cummings ran out of No 10, his wife, Mary Wakefield, appears to have been already ill, according to her Spectator article about the experience, in which she says: “My husband did rush home to look after me.”   Both Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for coronavirus, while chief medical officer Chris Whitty says he has symptoms of the disease and is self-isolating.   Mr Cummings said: "I suddenly got a call from my wife who was looking after our four-year-old child. She told me she suddenly felt badly ill." He went home and after a couple of hours his wife felt better and he returned to work. "There were many critical things at work and she asked me to return [to work] in the afternoon and I did." He then "drove up to Durham that night arriving at roughly midnight" with his family.     In spectator articles on 24th and 25th April * Wakefield (wife) wrote in the spectator that Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her * She went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” * Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” * The following days, by Wakefield’s account, were a mixture of family idyll and health nightmare, as she made a “palace out of polystyrene packaging” with their son … even as Cummings’s breathing got so bad that she feared he should be in hospital. But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. That would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April,     Sat March 28th Is apparently the day Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her His wife went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” 10 days from March 28th – would take us to the 7th April.   Mon March 30: Downing Street confirms Mr Cummings is suffering from coronavirus symptoms and is self-isolating.   Tuesday 31 March/1st April: Durham The police have said that on 31 March they were “made aware of reports” of Cummings’s presence in the area and had then contacted the family to “reiterate the appropriate advice around essential travel”.   2 April: During the night, Mr Cummings' four-year-old son "threw up and had a bad fever". Following medical advice, an ambulance took the child to hospital. He was accompanied by Mr Cummings' wife   3 April: Mr Cummings' son spent the night in hospital and woke up the next day having "recovered". He was tested for coronavirus and his mother, who was with him at the hospital, was told "they should return home". According to Mr Cummings, there were no taxis so he "drove to the hospital, picked him up and returned home". He said he "did not leave the car or have any contact with anybody on this short trip".   Sunday 5 April: The ‘Abba’ sighting (despite claims of ten days where he couldn’t get up with a high fever) Cummings alledgedly seen in Garden with AbbA blaring But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. Which would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April, … Although the claimed 10 days after the 28th – the earliest point at which Cummings was said to have been symptomatic – would be the 7 April. The Guardian approaches Downing Street about the story, only to be told by a spokesman: “It will be a no comment on that one.” Mr Cummings said "after I started to recover, one day in the second week, I tried to walk outside the house". He confirmed he, his wife and his son went for a walk into woods owned by his father and it was at this point he was seen by passers-by but his family "had no interaction with them". The exact date is not clear but his second week isolating in Durham would have between 4-11th   6 April: At some point in the week leading up to this date, Mr Cummings discussed his decision to travel to Durham with the prime minister. "When we were both sick and in bed," he said, "I mentioned to him what I had done. Unsurprisingly given the condition we were in, neither of us remember the conversation in any detail."   Fri April 10: Number 10 is again contacted for comment regarding Mr Cumming’s trip by the Guardian. Instead of defending the journey, officials declined to comment.   Fri 10th/Sat 11th April: The 14-day period of Cummings’s isolation would have expired on 10/11th April, assuming it is counted from when Wakefield appears to have first fallen ill on 27 March or when Cummings fell ill 24 hours later.   11 April: Believing he had recovered by this date, albeit "feeling weak and exhausted", Mr Cummings said he "sought expert medical advice". "I explained our family's symptoms and all the timings and asked if it was safe to return to work on Monday or Tuesday, seek childcare and so on. I was told that it was safe and I could return to work"   Sunday 12 April: Barnard Castle Wakefield’s birthday, according to Companies House records – they allegedly made a trip to Barnard Castle, a charming town 30 miles from the Cummings’s family property, described on the English Heritage website as having “fantastic views” and “plenty to do for families on a day out”. That detail emerged in an interview with Robin Lees, a retired chemistry teacher who lives in the town. Lees, who says he has a photographic memory, told the Guardian he was “a bit gobsmacked” to see Cummings, and then was so incensed that he made a note of the family car’s numberplate and checked it online when he got home. Cummings acknowledges he drove to Barnard Castle, 30 miles from his parents' home in Durham, with his wife and child. He explained this episode as needing to test his driving was fine before making the long drive back to London. He said he'd been having problems with his vision   Tuesday 14 April: London The Guardian asked Wakefield to confirm whether the family had been in London throughout the lockdown period, but received no reply. Cummings was photographed back in Downing Street on 14 April   Sunday 19 April: ‘bluebell’ woods - Cummings and Wakefield in Houghall woods? Could Cummings have then gone back to the north-east from London? Downing Street is emphatic that he did not. The denial came after another witness claimed to the Guardian and Sunday Mirror that they had seen Cummings and Wakefield on a country walk in Houghall Woods, a beauty spot near his parents’ property in Durham. According to this account, Cummings said: “Aren’t the bluebells lovely?” Cummings says he did not return to Durham   Monday 20 April Cummings seen in London again   May 23: Downing Street statement: “Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.” The statement said: “At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. “His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.” Speaking outside his home, Mr Cummings reiterated: “I behaved reasonably and legally”. When a reporter suggested to him that his actions did not look good, he replied: “Who cares about good looks? “It’s a question of doing the right thing. It’s not about what you guys think.” Later at the daily Downing Street briefing, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said Mr Cummings had the PM’s “full support” and that Mr Johnson “knew that he was unwell and that he was in lockdown”. Mr Shapps said it had always been permissible for families to travel to be closer to their relatives as long as they “go to that location and stay in that location”. Meanwhile, deputy chief medical officer for England, Dr Jenny Harries, said that travelling during lockdown was permissible if “there was an extreme risk to life”, with a “safeguarding clause” attached to all advice to prevent vulnerable people being stuck at home with no support.   Health Secretary Matt Hancock and Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak have tweeted their support for Mr Cummings.   Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said on Monday morning that Mr Cummings had "set out absolutely clearly and absolutely categorically he didn't break the rules and didn't break the law". The attorney general, Suella Braverman, tweet on Saturday in which she quoted the full text of the No 10 statement on Boris Johnson’s chief aide in which the prime minister said he had behaved “responsibly and legally”.   (Disgraceful) Boris Johnson said at the weekend Cummings acted “responsibly and legally and with integrity”   “The PM’s risible defence of Cummings is an insult to all those who have made such sacrifices to ensure the safety of others,” said Johne Inge, the bishop of Worcester, on Twitter.   “What planet are they on?” asked a front page headline in the Daily Mail, an influential right-wing paper usually supportive of Johnson.   https://descrier.co.uk/politics/dominic-cummings-and-wife-tried-to-cover-up-lockdown-breach-in-articles-for-the-spectator/   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/dominic-cummings-timeline-what-we-know-about-his-movements   https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/timeline-the-coronavirus-lockdown-and-dominic-cummings-trip-to-durham/   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52784290   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/attorney-general-faces-calls-to-resign-defends-dominic-cummings-suella-braverman   https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-cummings/what-planet-are-they-on-no-respite-for-johnson-and-aide-idUKKBN2310UE   https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/05/25/what-plant-are-they-on-press-slams-johnson-and-cummings/
    • simply tell them on the phone writing only sorry as I might want to escalate this to the fos or court. sorry but no speaky..speaky   you night find this interesting?   https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/09/life-insurance-misselling-aviva-hamilton-life   dx
    • I've had a few missed calls and then text from RBS wanting to talk about the letter I sent, two posts up.    Am I best to wait for them to write? Didn't really want to get into a discussion with them about it ideally!
    • I haven’t even looked.  I doubt some PR bod would have been in the loop.
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debt_mountain

Defendant is going to contest jurisdiction?

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If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

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Happy new year all,

 

I am starting a new claim against someone (leaving them nameless at the moment as I think they read this site). But I received a letter from their solicitor saying they acknowledge the claim but will be contesting jurisdiction. I live in Scotland and the company I took out the finance was in Scotland but each time I wrote a letter (Prelim / LBA and any serious complaint letter ) I got a reply from an English address.

 

I had the papers served on an English address.

 

do I simply write to the court telling them why I opted to go for an English court?

 

The T/C are also writtne under English Law and the CRA info stored is also an English address.

 

Thanks


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Unfortunately it is difficult to help you without you naming the company concerned.

 

The defendant must be based in England either at the time the contract was signed or currently, or that the contract was signed within England.

 

You cannot use English law when they only have an office in England.

 

There may be ways round this but without further information it would be very difficult to know.

 

If it helps, so far we have had no trouble with people naming the banks/institutions and so far the banks haven't used it against any member and would be very unlikely to in your case.


BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

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Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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I believe you are always supposed to either use your local branch address or their Edit i meant registered office

 

I would always recommend the registered office, if this is in england then i don't see they have a claim.

 

If you haven't served it either your local branch or the registered office then they may have a case i believe.

 

FWIW local branch is always dangerous for serving claims because some people may take this to mean any branch which is convenient to them rather than the one closest to them.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn


Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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the company is Blackhorse whose registered office is in Cardiff but every reply I have received back even when I have sent a letter to my local office, is sent from the Cockfoster address in Barnet.

 

My local office is in Scotland, this is where I signed the latest document (not included in the claim) but previous contracts were signed at home and posted in.

 

Thanks


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the company is Blackhorse whose registered office is in Cardiff but every reply I have received back even when I have sent a letter to my local office, is sent from the Cockfoster address in Barnet. I believe that you should have used the cardiff address.

 

My local office is in Scotland, this is where I signed the latest document (not included in the claim) but previous contracts were signed at home and posted in. I dont believe this has any bearing on where you file your claim.

 

Thanks

Hold on a mo, i presumed you were suing then in an english court, are you suing them in a scottish court?

If so ill bow out because i havent looked at scots law in this respect.

Glenn


Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Glenn I am suing them in an english court.

 

Got the letter today saying the judge was going to review the request blackhorse made to have the case kicked out for me being in scotland but claiming in england.

 

Is there anything I can do to prevent this? The papers were not signed on blackhorse property, always posted to my home and as I was travelling a lot I will have signed them in England and posted them there. Can I use this as a cause for it being in an english court?

 

the agrement does say that it is english law so does that men I can chiise if it is to be heard in england or scotland?

 

any more ideas?


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i think that you have to reside in england to sue in england and so its normal to 'have' an english address for the service of papers.

 

Im not an expert on this issue have you asked in the forum specific to the scottish claimants?

 

Glenn


Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Thanks Glenn

 

Surely if that is the case then the english court should reject the claim and not take the money?

 

I will ask in the scottish section.


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I went into the Scottish section and the GovanLawCenter and got some info on jurisdiction

 

I will be sending this off late afternoon so any comments before then would be good?

 

thanks

 

So in addition to my initial letter (at bottom of this post) I will send the following--

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of 15th January 2007. Further to my letter of 3/1/7 I would like to request the court consider the enclosed information when reviewing the defendants application for an order challenging jurisdiction.

1 – It is my understanding that the rules on where I can raise proceedings (jurisdiction) - are set out in the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, as amended by the Civil Juridiction and Judgments Order 2001. Schedule 4 of the 1982 Act (as amended) regulates the court's jurisdiction over consumer contracts. This includes a consumer's bank or building society account.

Importantly, para 8 of schedule 4 provides that a customer is entitled to sue their bank where they live (where they are 'domiciled') or where the bank is domiciled.

A company 's domicile is usually established from where it has its 'seat', that is usually its 'registered office' or the place where its central management and control is exercised: section 42, 1982 Act. Blackhorse’s registered address is in Wales but all communications received regarding my claim have been sent from one of their English addresses - 116 Cockfoster Road, Barnet,EN4 0DY.

2 – Should the defendant be trying to claim that a clause in the terms and conditions of the agreements state that, as I have a Scottish address, then the agreement is governed by Scottish law, then I believe that does not confer exclusive jurisdiction.

Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 allows parties to agree that one part of the UK has 'exclusive jurisdiction'. That is known as 'prorogation' of jurisdiction. In other words, that proceedings must be raised either in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

In general, paragraph 9 can only apply if both you and your bank were domiciled in the same part of the UK when the account was opened (i.e. either both in England/Wales, or both in Scotland, or both in NI) and the contract contains a clause conferring exclusive jurisdiction to one part of the UK.

Firstly, such clauses do not deal with exclusive jurisdiction - they simply deal with the application of common law rules. The courts have held that such clauses do not go far enough to confer exclusive jurisdiction.

For example, in the case of McGowan v. Summit at Lloyds 2002 SC 638, 2002 SLT 1258, an insurance policy contained a clause which said: 'this Document shall be governed by the laws of England, whose courts shall have jurisdiction in any dispute arising hereunder'. An action was raised in Scotland and Lloyds defence was the case was incompetent as the Scottish courts had no jurisdiction in light of the clause. However, the Inner House of the Court of Session (Scotland's highest court) held (applying the English case of S&W Berisford plc v. New Hampshire Insurance Co Ltd [1990] 2 QB 631) that the clause did not create exclusive jurisdiction in England, and only created concurrent jurisdiction i.e. proceedings could be raised in either Scotland or England in terms of the clause and the 1982 Act.

In the English High Court case of S&W Berisford plc (cited above) a clause in an insurance policy stated that 'This insurance is subject to English jurisdiction'. Justice Hobhouse (as he then was) held that those words 'were inept' to create an exclusive jurisdiction clause.

I also believe that any such clause in an agreement is an unfair term of contract in terms of UTCC Regulations 1999. Paragraph 1(q) of Schedule 2 to the 1999 Regulations provides as follows:

SCHEDULE 2

INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR

1(q) excluding or hindering the consumer's right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, particularly by requiring the consumer to take disputes exclusively to arbitration not covered by legal provisions, unduly restricting the evidence available to him or imposing on him a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.

CIVIL JURISDICTION AND JUDGMENTS ACT 1982 AS AMENDED

SCHEDULE 4 AS AMENDED BY CIVIL JURISDICTION AND JUDGMENTS ORDER 2001

Jurisdiction over consumer contracts

 

7. - (1) In matters relating to a contract concluded by a person, the consumer, for a purpose which can be regarded as being outside his trade or profession, jurisdiction shall be determined by this rule and rules 8 and 9, without prejudice to rule 3(e) and (h)(ii), if -

 

(a) it is a contract for the sale of goods on instalment credit terms; or

 

(b) it is a contract for a loan repayable by instalments, or for any other form of credit, made to finance the sale of goods; or

 

© in all other cases, the contract has been concluded with a person who pursues commercial or professional activities in the part of the United Kingdom in which the consumer is domiciled or, by any means, directs such activities to that part or to other parts of the United Kingdom including that part, and the contract falls within the scope of such activities.

 

(2) This rule shall not apply to a contract of transport other than a contract which, for an inclusive price, provides for a combination of travel and accommodation, or to a contract of insurance.

 

8. - (1) A consumer may bring proceedings against the other party to a contract either in the courts of the part of the United Kingdom in which that party is domiciled or in the courts of the part of the United Kingdom in which the consumer is domiciled.

 

(2) Proceedings may be brought against a consumer by the other party to the contract only in the courts of the part of the United Kingdom in which the consumer is domiciled.

 

(3) The provisions of this rule shall not affect the right to bring a counter-claim in the court in which, in accordance with this rule and rules 7 and 9, the original claim is pending.

 

9. The provisions of rules 7 and 8 may be departed from only by an agreement -

 

(a) which is entered into after the dispute has arisen; or

 

(b) which allows the consumer to bring proceedings in courts other than those indicated in those rules; or

 

© which is entered into by the consumer and the other party to the contract, both of whom are at the time of conclusion of the contract domiciled or habitually resident in the same part of the United Kingdom, and which confers jurisdiction on the courts of that part, provided that such an agreement is not contrary to the law of that part.

For the above reasons I would dispute the defendants rights to contest jurisdiction.

 

The original letter I sent was--

 

 

I have received a letter from the defendants solicitor informing me that they are intending to contest jurisdiction for this case.

I would like to detail why, although I live in Scotland, I have chosen to serve papers on the defendant through an English court.

1 – All replies to my correspondence asking for our personal data not to be shared was replied to from the Cockfosters address.

2 – All references in the credit reference agencies systems state an address in Wales.

3 – Any letter of a serious nature sent to my local office was forwarded to an English address by the local office and the reply was sent out by the English office.

4 – The terms and conditions document attached to each agreement was in English law.

I have a very detailed file of every communication sent to the defendant and a copy of their reply, detailing what address they have replied from.

For the above reasons I would dispute the defendants rights to contest jurisdiction.


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As i said i am no expert and this looks good to me.

 

Glenn


Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Got a letter today from Blackhore, I have added it to my Blackhorse thread.


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There is no reason why your case cannot & should not be heard in England.

 

Also if they have expressed their contract to be subject to English Law I can't understand what they are playing at other than they are hoping to put you off by claiming they can litigate in Scotland where the costs regime kicks in much sooner.....after £750.....Obviously someone at BH needs to read their own agreements.

 

Pass their fancy Newport offices regularly & take great pleasure, at rush hour (or as I prefer crash hour) in not letting them out into the busy flowing traffic. In fact I go out of my way whenever lawfully possible to block their passage.....& being a mean sod it gives me great pleasure

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got a copy of an order from Morpeth Judge telling Blackarse to get a copy of each agreement to him is 2 weeks. Guess the jurisdiction stuff has passed for the time being.


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