Cash Card Fraud, Can I take action?

[cjhooker]

Both me and my girlfriend have had several handred pounds taken from our accounts after our cards were frauded at a petrol Garage, apparently the cctv camera was filming people punch in their pin numbers then cards were cloned in India and Holland and cash withdrawn.

We have been told by our bank that eventualy we will be refunded by the them, but it totally ruined our Christmas and we still have no money.

Can we take the Garage to the small claims court?

[Guest NATTIE]

I wish I knew the answer because you were not alone on fraud over Christmas. I hope the New Year has started better

[LondonPam]

It is most likely that your bank is well aware of this as there have been problems with certain garages for a while. As far as I can find on the net, the police are investigating these garages. Your bank is most likely to give you your money bank. I'm not to sure how you could take the garage themselves to court as it appears to be an act by individuals that have caused the problem. You would need prove ie cctv footage etc and I don't see how you can get that.

[cjhooker]

The police are investigating the Garage, so I presume they have the cctv footage, could I not ask for the footage as evidence for a case in the small claim court? Surely if the garage cctv was filming people entering pin codes they would have an obligation to make sure the cameras were being used in the correct manner?

[blacksheep1979]

If you are on the footage you can make a SAR for it.

[cjhooker]

thanks for all the help. Blacksheep1979 do I send the SAR the garage? It may seem a bit over the top but I am realy annoyed that The cameras were used in this way.

[blacksheep1979]

Thing is - it depends on how long ago this was as they only have to keep the tapes for a fairly limited period of time (30 day sI think). However you may be lucky as if its being investigated or they use a large hard drive recorder they may still have it. If its a chain I'd send a letter to head office and to the relevant petrol station but only send paymetn to one of them.

[cjhooker]

seems the police are finding it hard to find evidence against the garage to press charges, allthough the garage has been named in the local press and the investigation continues. two employees have been deported as they were working illegaly. I'm not giving up, as far as I'm concerned the garage has an obligation to check the coreect use of its cameras.

[demon_x_slash]

Duty of Care to its customers? If the screens clearly display customers entering their PINs, you may be able to argue that someone should have spotted this sooner. Get the footage with the SAR as suggested and see how obvious (or not) the re-positioning of the camera was. If no one noticed because the staff were all involved, then your position is unchanged - the garage did not protect you, the customer, from its own staff.

[dalemiles]

I was victim of a simular incident.

 

My card was cloned after using it at the local Tesco Cash point, along quite a few other people, one of my friends had nearly 2 grand taken from her account.

 

When they took my money it put me into an overdraft i didnt have, so i got a phone call from HSBC the next day asking why i was in my overdraft.

 

Basicaly they took 50 quid installments from my account on a saturday night untill they could take no more, this happened other end of the country.

 

I assume you have spoken to the police, the police required me to get all the details from the bank, what cash machines were used, the time of use ammount taken etc, in which they gave me a crime number, took several weeks for the bank to sort it out and reimburst me, then they tried to charge me overdraft charges for the fruad going into my over draft, but once explained to the clerk this was quickly sorted out.

 

Blacksheep dont you have to pay for a SAR (about 20quid iirc)? But this basicaly makes the company hand over any details they have on record about you, which would include the cctv footage.

 

Its strange that 2 employees were working illegalily there, where they native to the countries cloning your cards? if so its pretty ovbious who was behind it.

 

Hope you get it sorted soon.

[patdavies]

Thing is - it depends on how long ago this was as they only have to keep the tapes for a fairly limited period of time (30 day sI think).

 

They do not have to keep tapes at all since there is no obligation to record.

 

I know of businesses with an 8 hour loop. If something happens that means that the tape is required for evidence, then it is replaced by another - otherwise at the end of 8 hours it is overwritten.

 

Many businesses don't keep tapes beyond a week (ie the tapes are one a weekly cycle). This is simply to reduce staff time searching tapes when (or if) a SAR is recieved

[tim2718281]

Both me and my girlfriend have had several handred pounds taken from our accounts after our cards were frauded at a petrol Garage, apparently the cctv camera was filming people punch in their pin numbers then cards were cloned in India and Holland and cash withdrawn.

We have been told by our bank that eventualy we will be refunded by the them, but it totally ruined our Christmas and we still have no money.

Can we take the Garage to the small claims court?

 

When this happend to me(*) my bank offered an overdraft to tide me over till the refund happened. So maybe it's work asking your bank for help.

 

The refund took several weeks - I think it was about a week longer than they originally estimated.

 

Tim

 

(*) over £1200 taken in five days without my noticing .. card had been cloned at a cash point outside a supermarket at Portchester. One of the two machines was not working ... so I suspect that as well as putting a loop in one machine, the crooks disabled the other. This may be a useful clue - if ever you're using one of a pair of machines and the other is not working, be extra vigilant.

 

I now cover the keypad with one hand when entering a pin.

[Stillborn Crisps]

My mate got ripped off back in the days before there was this cloning technology, where someone watched her enter the pin and then an accomplice pickpocketed her wallet as she left.

 

Since then I've always completely covered my 'pin hand' with my other hand. Once you know the pattern to move your fingers in for your pin, you can be really covert this way. I've managed to enter the right pin like this even while completely sloshed. ;-)

 

I've noticed in places like garages and small shops they often offer you a handheld chip & pin device and hold it up for you to press your pin in, but this makes covering your actions difficult as the device is wobbling about a little. I always insist on putting it on the counter, or if it's on a cord pulling it all the way over to myself so I can hide my 'pin hand'.

 

May seem a bit paranoid, but that's the way of the world these day, I guess.

 

On the subject of CCTV tapes, my mate's video store had them on a fortnightly cycle, so I guess it really is down to the individual company/store.

 

Hope the bank pays you back soon cjhooker.

[JimmyTheOne]

This may interest you:

 

Customers are guilty until proven innocent.

[cjhooker]

Both me and my girlfriend have now been payed back. Didn't need a crime number off the police as so many people had been ripped off from the same garage. I will still persue the garage for at least an apology.

I will let you know.

 

Thanks for the replys