a little help needed

[joe90]

hi,

 

my case is in the court system at the moment but i have a few questions that i hoped someone would help me on

 

NatWest have acknowledged the claim and said they intend to defend the claim this was acknowledged on the 7/12/06 as i understand it they should now put in a defence within 28 days and then i should put in the court pack i have assembled when i receive their defence? correct??

 

from the 7/12/06 they have 28 days to defend, now is this 28 working days?, and should it be taken from and including the 7/17/06 as day one, or the next day 8/12/06.

if it is 28 days straight and including the 7/12/06 as day one then i should get a response by this Wednesday 3/1/07??

so if they dont respond by sending a defence to the court by this date i should then start the judgement by default on the moneyclaim site???

 

I know the information is out there somewhere on this site but ive been looking for a while now and couldn't find the answers (im not a good researcher! )

 

i would be grateful for any help anyone can offer

 

 

cheers:)

[Deller]

What we really need to is the date your claim was deemed served, you'll find this on your Notice of Issue which you will have received after filing your claim.

[joe90]

sorry

 

the notice of issue says

 

your claim was issued on the 30th november 2006

the court sent it to the defendent by first class post on the 30th november and it will be deemed to be served on the 5th dec 2006

the defendent has untill the 19th december 2006 to reply

 

sorry for being dumb i guess that answers my question

[Deller]

In total they will get 28 days to submit their defence from the deemed served date. This 28 days does include weekends but not public holidays so I calculate they have until 5th Jan to submit their defence.

 

It would be wise to allow another day or so after the 5th before trying to enter judgement against them as if they do file their defence right at the last minute the court will allow them to apply for set aside, this will only delay proceedings futher.

[joe90]

cheers deller1

 

so ill wait till next monday 8/01/07 to start the judgement and hopefully they wont respond before then:)

 

thanks

[Deller]

They will probably respond at the very last minute, that's usually the case with Cobbetts.

[joe90]

you were sooo right deller1:x

they sent their defence and CPR18 request, which is totally intimidatory, stalling and ridiculas as they have had 2 copies of the statement for charges

 

ive been reading the topic

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/35672-cobbetts-cpr-18-request.html

and i must admit im a little confused as to what do do next, as i understand i should now

A.

send 2 letters (post 7 in above thread)with another statement of charges to cobbetts and the court, stating they have had the information and that i find the request for information unfounded and intimidatory.

B.

this is where i am not sure what to do, is it now that i send my court bundle with all the relevant case history/judgements and rulings that i am relying on to win the case

C.

should i sit tight and and wait for the court to contact me with the AQ

 

thanks for any help anyone may be able to offer

 

regards

joe90:)

[Deller]

In relation to question A, yes this is correct, send the two copies as stated.

 

B, no you wont need the court bundle until such a time when you may receive a court date. You should have settlement before this though.

 

C, yes, wait for the AQ to arrive, this is usually a few days after the defence.

[joe90]

cool cheers deller

 

gutted that i may not get to send court bundle spent loads of time on that and printing guess i should have waited on that

 

oh and is it true you have to stump up some more cash for the AQ?

 

cheers deller1

[Deller]

Yes I'm afraid the AQ will cost another 100 quid, but this is reclaimable.

 

You may have printed off the Court Bundle but the postage will cost a bit, and you have to send two, one to the court and one to Cobbetts!!

[joe90]

thanks deller1

 

ill be thankful for not having to stump up more postage for sure, do they do all this stalling just hoping that some will not carry on or make a mistake do you think they must have some plan behind it all as the solicitors must cost them a bit

anyhoo your a star, wouldnt expect anything less from a fellow Bristolian

 

cheers

joe90

[Deller]

To be honest Nat West are one of the tougher cookies to crack, and yes the only reasons behind their stalling tactics is in hope of people cracking and settling for mesely offers. Thankfully we all know better, and the perserverance pays off in the end!

[joe90]

ive just rewritten the corbbetts letter, defence and cpr18 request do you think it would be useful for people to see these examples so they can compare and prepare??

perhaps they are already on here? or is there a legal implication?

 

just trying to be helpful

[Deller]

Definately worth viewing!!

[joe90]

should i file host them or just quote them in a post

there is 8 converted pages

[joe90]

cobbetts covering letter

 

Dear Sir

Our client: National Weslminster Bank plc

We are instructed on behalf of the above named.

We enclose by way of service:

1 Defence.

2 Request for Further Information.

 

We confirm that we have filed a copy of the same with the Court. Would you please acknowledge receipt.

 

We note that you state in your Particulars of Claim that a list of the charges for which you are claiming has already been supplied and that another copy will follow. Unfortunately this list has not been received by us and we would be grateful if you could provide us with a copy.

 

Cobbetts LLP

[joe90]

IN THE ................... COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO.

 

BETWEEN:

 

your name Claimant

 

-and

 

NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC Defendant

 

DEFENCE

 

1.

This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the Defendant's case that the

Particulars of Claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim

against the Claimant to recover the bank charges (and interest thereon) referred

to in the Particulars of Claim or any other sum(s). In the event that the Claimant

does not properly particularise his claim then the Defendant will apply to strike out

the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

 

2.

No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimant's

bank account.

 

3.

The Claimant refers under paragraph 3 of the Particulars of Claim to having provided the Defendant with a copy of his list of charges. The Defendant has not

yet received a copy of this list. The Claimant is therefore put to strict proof of each

and every charge the subject of the claim and must identify in respect of each

charge (a) the date the same was debited, (b) the amount of the same and © the

description applied to the charge.

 

4.

In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the

charges have been applied are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract

Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977") and/or the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer

Regulations 1999 ("the Regulations") and/or the common law, the Claimant is

required to identify:

 

4.1

(a) the section(s) of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977");

(b) the regulations of The Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations

1999 ("the Regulations"); and © the principles of common law relied upon

by the Claimant in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are

unenforceable; and

 

 

4.2

the contractual provision(s) that the Claimant allege are invalid by

reference to UCT A 1977 and/or the Regulations.

Until such time as these sections/regulations/provisions are identified the

Defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegation referred

to in paragraph 4 above. The Defendant therefore reserves its right to

plead further to the allegation once (and if) the Claimant identifies the

relevant contractual information.

 

5.

In relation to the case of the Claimant that the charges are unreasonable within

the meaning of section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

("SGSA") the Defendant pleads as follows:

 

5.1

The Claimant is required to plead and prove the necessary factors

(referred to in section 15 SGSA) concerning the contract between the

Claimant and the Defendant which mean that pursuant to SGSA section

15 there is an implied term that the Claimant pay a reasonable charge for

the service under the contract.

 

5.2

Further, the Claimant is required to plead and prove (a) that the bank

charges which have been debited are unreasonable; (b) all facts and

matters relied upon by the Claimant in support of this case and © what

charges would have been reasonable.

 

5.3

In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the

Defendant has acted in breach of SGSA section 15.

 

5.4

In the circumstances (save as appears below) the Defendant is unable to

plead to this allegation beyond denying that it has acted in breach of

SGSA section 15 as alleged or at all. The Defendant reserves its right to

plead further to this allegation once (and if) the defects in the pleaded case

referred to in paragraphs 5.1-5.3 above are addressed.

 

5.5

It is the case of the Defendant that the contract between the Claimant and

the Defendant does not fall within SGSA section 15 because (a) the

consideration for the service would be determined by the contract between

the Claimant and the Defendant and (b) was not left to be determined in a

manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealings

between the Claimant and the Defendant.

 

 

6.

The Claimant's claim for costs not being sufficiently particularised, the Defendant

is unable to plead and reserves the right to plead upon further particulars.

 

7.

To assist the Claimant with the proper particularisation of his claim(s), the

Defendant serves with this Defence a request made pursuant to CPR Part 18. If

the Claimant fails to provide the particulars requested in the time stipulated and/or the defects with the claim(s) (referred to in paragraph 1 above) remain then the

Defendant will apply to the Court for (among other things) an order striking out the

claim.

 

8.

Pending the proper particularisation of the claim(s) the Defendant is unable to

plead to the Claimant's claim(s) beyond at this stage denying that the Defendant

is liable to the Claimant as alleged in the Claim or at all. The Defendant reserves

its right to amend this Defence to plead further to the Claimant's claim(s) once or if

the Claimant properly particularises the same.

 

9.

Save as hereinbefore appears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on his

claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.

 

signed

 

defendants solicitor

[joe90]

IN THE ................. COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO. ................

 

BETWEEN:

 

YOUR NAME Claimant

 

- and

 

NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC Defendant

 

 

REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION AND CLARIFICATION

 

NOTE -IMPORTANT

1.

This request is served pursuant to CPR Part 18 alternatively with regard to CPR

Rule 27.2(3).

2.

The reason(s) why this request has been served are set out in the Defence which

has been served by the Defendant.

3.

You are asked to provide a response to this request in accordance with CPR Part

18 by 16 January 2007.

4.

If you are unable to provide a response by this date then you are asked to

contact the Defendant's solicitors promptly and tell them when you will be able to

provide a response.

5.

In the event that you do not provide an adequate response to this request by this

date (or such other date as may be agreed with the Defendant's solicitors) then

the Defendant can apply to the Court for an order requiring you to provide the

information requested or (in view of the deficiencies in the way that the claim is

pleaded) an order striking out the claim(s).

 

 

The Request

 

1.

In your claim you state: "Claimant claims [the] return of the amounts debited of

£..........".

 

2.

Please provide the following particulars in support of your claim:

2.1

In relation to each charge please identify (a) the date when the charge was

charged; (b) the amount of the same; and © the reason(s) given for the

charging of the same.

2.2

In relation to each charge, please clarify the following: (a) is it the case of the

Claimant the same should not have been charged? (b) If yes; please explain

why the Claimant contends that the same should not have been charged? ©

If no; is it the case of the Claimant that the same should not have been

charged in this amount? (d) If yes; please explain why the Claimant contends

that the same should not have been charged in this amount and identify the

sum the Claimant contends should have been charged. (e) If no; please state

the Claimant's case.

 

3.

In your claim you state that the charges are: "unenforceable under the Unfair

Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, the Unfair Contract Terms Act

1977 and the common lavv" and "they must be reasonable under s15 of the

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982".

 

4.

Please specify all of the facts relied on by the Claimant in support of the

contentions in paragraph 3 above, and in particular please identify (a) the

section(s) of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977"); (b) the

regulations of The Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 ("the

Regulations"); and © the principles of common law relied upon by the Claimant

in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are unenforceable. Please

also identify the contractual provision(s) that the claimant alleges are unenforceable by reference to UCTA/ the regulations