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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Specialist motor finance (my car) 435- being obstructive over VT return


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Have done a voluntary termination on a car, but SMF are asking us to download an app to do an appraisal and to pay 150 to collect car or drop off.

They were told 21 days ago and are still messing about refusing to sort. 

The car needs moving as no space for it and can not afford to pay the insurance etc on it when not in use. 

Can we log the car to them on v5 and leave on road as they are refusing to sort. 

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they cannot charge to collect the car.

how far away are they asking you to deliver the car?

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Specialist motor finance being obstructive over VT return

They want us to take it an hour away, but only Monday to Wednesday between 10 and 2,

the car's mot runs out next Tuesday and

insurance on 19th

tax on 31st July 

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that tells me alot how far please?

 

from my notes:

Section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act gives the debtor the right to terminate a hire purchase agreement,

simply by giving written notice of termination..

The right to terminate applies at any time before the final payment becomes due, unless the creditor has already terminated.

.contrary to the line taken by many finance companies,.

the debtor need not have paid half the total amount payable,.

and nor do they have to pay any arrears,.

before exercising the right to terminate..

Sections 99 and 100 set out the debtor's liability on voluntary termination.

The sections are complex,.

but their main effect can be summarised in brief as follows..

.If the sum of payments made and arrears before termination exceeds 50% of the total price,

than the debtor is only liable to pay the arrears..

Otherwise, the debtor is liable to pay half the total price, less any payments already made..

so the debtor can terminate at any time if he has reached the 50 % mark.

the debtor can terminate at any time before the 50 % mark but would be liable for payments still to reach the 50 % mark,.

does not matter if the account is in arrears at the time or request to do a voluntary termination..

you need to specifically nail them down that this is a VT and NOT a VS [voluntary surrender].

dont get caught out!!

take extensive photos of the car inside and out

and underneath and in the engine compartment ALWAYS.

if they try and charge a repo fee or collection fee they cannot:

173 Contracting-out forbidden.

(1)A term contained in a regulated agreement or linked transaction, or in any other agreement relating to an actual or prospective regulated agreement or linked transaction, is void if, and to the extent that, it is inconsistent with a provision for the protection of the debtor or hirer or his relative or any surety contained in this Act or in any regulation made under this Act.

This term is covered by the above section of the CCA 1974 in that it breaches this:

99 Right to terminate hire-purchase etc. agreements.

(1)At any time before the final payment by the debtor under a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement falls due, the debtor shall be entitled to terminate the agreement by giving notice to any person entitled or authorised to receive the sums payable under the agreement

In other words nothing can stop you voluntarily terminating.

The only charges you must pay are the ones contained in the legislation and itemised in section 101,

the charge mentioned is levied after the agreement is terminated and is void in any case.

All it means is that no one will collect the terminated car (their car), well that is their problem it is no longer yours , your attachment to the car has been terminated..

although dependant on the way your agreement is written, they can charge excess mileage.

this has been accepted at county court level, but afaik has not been tested in a higher court..

..............example letter..ADAPT TO SUIT..............

You must vt under s99/100 cca1974. do not sign any of their forms, or agree to pay anything..

The car has just to be in reasonable condition for its age.

If you have paid in excess of 50%,

with no arrears there will be nothing to pay..

Send them the following letter,

they MUST action your request,

you should endeavour to be present at the vehicle inspection---.

VOLUNTARY TERMINATION OF AGREEMENT UNDER S99/100 CCA 1974.

Account No: (xxxxxxx)

 

Dear Sir,

I am writing to notify you that I am exercising my right to terminate the above Agreement

under Section 99 of the consumer credit act1974..

You will understand that the aforementioned section permits the debtor to terminate the agreement

at any time before the last payment is due..

There is no restriction regarding the exercising this statutory right,

particularly none in respect of any perceived arrears or monies due on termination.

I understand that I shall be liable to you for the amount calculated under the formula in Section 100

of the Consumer Credit Act 1974..

**As I have/have not paid more than the amount calculated under the formula in Section 100 the amount due is £XXXX/zero..

The above agreement will be terminated 14 days from the date of this notice..

Please send me details of how the vehicle can be returned to you..

You will be aware that statute prevents you from levying a charge for the recovery of this vehicle;

guidelines also state that if you require me to deliver this vehicle

it must be no more than a short (reasonable distance) from my registered address..

Please confirm receipt of this request in writing within 7 days of receipt..

-Yours etc...

..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry it's 30.1 miles away from us,

partner says he still owes £2000 on it, but smf have said they will not voluntary terminate only default and repossess as he can't pay £2000 upfront or in next 9 months so can not vt.

 

 

 

 

 

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what utter RUBBISH 

you can VT at ANYTIME.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Voluntary termination and voluntary surrender are both similar in the way that, although you’re handing your car back, you may still be liable for at least some level of payment.

You’ll need to have paid that 50% balance amount for termination, and you may have to pay towards your surrender if the car doesn’t make enough at auction.

Surrendering a financed car is usually a last resort when payments can’t be made, while termination could be for reasons like needing a larger car or no longer needing a vehicle at all.

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Unfortunately, you do not meet the criteria for this option.

To Voluntary Termination with liability, the liability must be paid back over the remaining term.

You have already confirmed that this is unaffordable.

You can Default Terminate, and the sale proceed from the vehicle will be deducted from your balance.

We can then accept your £10 per month offer to clear the shortfall.

This option will impact your credit rating.


Alternately, you could look at part exchanging the vehicle or selling the vehicle to settle your account.

Your current settlement figure £7815.99.

This is their reply to our letter we sent. 

 im guessing we have to surrender and pay what ever is outstanding. 

They sent a letter saying they adding a 12 fee for missing this months payment !

Though we asked to terminate last month.

We know it will not get much at auction

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On 30/06/2024 at 22:29, dx100uk said:

the debtor can terminate at any time before the 50 % mark but would be liable for payments still to reach the 50 % mark,.

does not matter if the account is in arrears at the time or request to do a voluntary termination..

why did you tell them you can only pay £10?

its only £2k. else its gonna be VS the fulll outstanding sum and you lose the car 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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who told you you have to pay the full 50% to VT the car,,,,,,

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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WRONG!!

On 07/07/2024 at 09:29, stuggling said:

To Voluntary Termination with liability, the liability must be paid back over the remaining term.

You have already confirmed that this is unaffordable

go read post 4 carefully and section 90 and 100 consumer credit act.

no where does it state any of the that. 

where did you get your VT letter from?

they cannot refuse VT

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I used the template above, and they have said no as not paid 2k,

the car will be uninsured and untaxed and no mot from 19th

they have and keep saying to surrender the car we keep saying no vt only 

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On 01/07/2024 at 19:11, stuggling said:

in next 9 months so can not vt.

you must find £223PCM, look at your outgoings.... thinks like monthly mobile phone contracts, streaming tv,  digital tv,, you could even simply stop paying credit cards for a few months, wont hurt you then put all those together and will easy meet the goal.

come on use your brains :bounce:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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What they have told you is total BS

You have the legal right to terminate the agreement from day one,

provided the finance company have not terminated 


Yes they are eventually entitled to 50% of the agreement but NOT on their time scale

Why on earth are you negotiating any form of payment before the VT is complete 

Get the VT done and sort out how you are going to pay later 
 

For reference 
 

TERMINATION: YOUR RIGHTS
You have a right to end this Agreement. To do so, you should write to the person you make your repayments to. They will then be entitled to the return of the Goods and to half the amount payable under the agreement, that is [£x – the exact figure for your contract]. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalments and have taken reasonable care of the goods, you will not have to pay any more.
 

so  yes they are entitled to 50% but in your timescale not theirs

  • I agree 1

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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We have done everything possible to sort they refuse to do unless we pay the 2k upfront and 150 collection fee, I don't have 2k rent is now 1500pcm 

 

They have said they just gonna Default the car and do that way, we keep telling them we want VT but they won't accept it they refused to do anything until we did and income and expenditure document, car has now ran out of MOT and tax can we not just place the v5 in there name and tell them to collect. 

 

No matter what we tell them just keep demanding 2k up front or a forced surrender 

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All is wrong. They cannot do that. End of. 

Date of your vt letter? 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It was sent on 1st July, though we sent them one before on June 21st and after that one they demanded an income and expenditure and then we sent the letter in this chat to them on July 1st and got 

 

Unfortunately, you do not meet the criteria for this option.

To Voluntary Termination with liability, the liability must be paid back over the remaining term.

You have already confirmed that this is unaffordable.

You can Default Terminate, and the sale proceed from the vehicle will be deducted from your balance.

 

And now they just keep calling and saying do a surrender 

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if you sent our letter above giving 14 days. legally the agreement became VT 'd 14 days later. they cannot stop it.

is this:

that you never bothered to update...........

god now theres more drivel story of you not enforcing your legal right.....your mistake was believing they had to AGREE first..you met the criteria. end of 

what you should have done on day 15 is gone to the FOS and complained SMF are refusing your VT>

but you de

the FOS Would have sorted that in ONE PHONE CALL>

17 minutes ago, stuggling said:

though we sent them one before on June 21st

exact letter wording please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As dx says the agreement has terminated 
Tell them to collect the car forthwith for which there can be no charge as confirmed by Trading Standards 
Inform them that their criteria cannot and does not override CCA1974

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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They have come back saying no longer able to terminate as no mot on car they want us go mot car

going to FOS

Scarp that Finical obudmans can not get involved without and official complaint

us sending the vt notice is not good enough! 

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Mot is irrelevent

 

It this the same car as the thread above. 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Specialist motor finance (my car) 435- being obstructive over VT return

More total nonsense 
MOT is irrelevant 
Yes they may try and claim dilapidation at some point but it does not affect your rights regarding VT
Please let us see the exact copies of the two letters that you sent 
If you sent the correct one in June then the agreement is terminated 
I fail to understand why you are doing any form of negotiation at present 
Tell them the agreement is terminated and to collect the car forthwith 
( provided you sent the correct letter)

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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