Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Another P2G / EVRi Lost Parcel Claim


Recommended Posts

Hi All,

I'm looking for help with a P2G claim for another lost parcel.

Given the wealth of information on this site, I'm hopeful that this should be an easy one to fix, but want to be sure I have everything.

On the 6th March, I contracted with P2G to send a parcel (a £600 Pioneer AVH-Z7200DAB car stereo which is not on either P2G or EVRi's excluded from compensation or prohibited items list) using EVRi, sent it off, and that was the last I heard of it. The EVRi tracking showed that the parcel had made it to the national sorting hub at 2:12 on the 7th, and then vanished. By Friday, I had started to get nervous, and so, raised an enquiry. And then another, and another - well, they weren't responding, and I couldn't get their telephone one to work, I think in all, it was more than 15 enquiries. I also raised an investigation with P2G as well.

EVRi closed the enquiry confirming a loss on the 19th March, and P2G near the end, although P2G closed it claiming that I needed to send photos of the parcel as proof - which I didn't have, and I also do not have an account with P2G so couldn't upload anything (I did test, just in case), and this is why despite receiving advice on the EVRi Fb group to send the letter before claim, I haven't yet acted.

I have proof of the eBay listing, and the refund, to demonstrate that which was being sent, but P2G's insistence that I have no photographic proof of the parcel with the label - I have the photo of the goods in their box before sending, but this is for the eBay listing, and so does not show it after the fact. This I fear is what P2G will seek to rely on as a defence, hence my 10 week delay on progressing with this.

But, I am more than £600 out of pocket for the loss: £600 for the item and £8.04 for the delivery fee, although my claim will actually be for an initial £611.09 to cover the cost of the loss, their delivery fee, and my 1st Class Recorded stamp for the Letter Before Claim to P2G, rising to £681.09 to cover the additional £70 cost of opening the court case if they fail to respond within 14 days.

This question mark surrounding P2G's request for photographic evidence, is this likely to cause me a problem?

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard of them asking for photographic evidence in this way before – but I don't think it will really pose a problem. Have you got a history of sending parcels which were then lost and you had to claim for?

When you send your letter of claim?

Was the item properly declared?
Was the item correctly valued?

Please answer these questions and then take at least a couple of days reading very thoroughly the stories on this sub- forum. There are lots of them. Read some of the pinned topics at the top which will explain the principles and then read the stories to see other people's experience.

Post up your letter of claim in PDF format so we can see what you sent.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the first item that I've ever claimed for - I don't really send too many parcels, probably 5 in the last 5 years, and only two with P2G / EVRi.

I've attached two emails from P2G regarding their requiring the documents. They don't specify in the emails what documents I should be sending, although when opening the claim they were requesting that I needed photographic proof of sending - picture of the parcel with their label attached, in the EVRi ParcelShop.

The second email is their closing the enquiry due to my failure to produce said document(s).

I haven't yet drafted my claim letter, I wanted to be sure of this document situation first before I began action. But therein lies another problem. Not having a P2G account, I cannot be sure of the item value that I declared.
The retail value at the time was £600, which is less than the £650 I paid several months earlier, so I would likely have used that, but cannot be sure. And without having an account I can't check either.

But, I know that I did properly declare the item and a value that reflected its then retail price - I was concerned this declaration may have been used to single the item for theft. But now that the retail price has reduced substantially, even though the nature of compensation is to return the claimant back to their original position, without my purchase receipt, I was concerned that I may have to claim for less.

And yes, I've been through your huge document store of information, in addition to MoneySavingExpert, Which, Citizens Advice, Gov.uk "make a court claim", my own law books (annoyingly I specialised in consumer law when I studied for my law degree, but I graduated 17 years ago), and so now feel that its time to either act, or drop it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You had better decide where you are going to get your advice from and stick to it. Otherwise there will be conflicting advice and confusion.

Also we are all volunteers. We don't get paid but the other agencies you are referring to earn money for what they do.

Do not want to compete with them.

Please make your decision and if you decide you want our help, then stick with us have the reading done and come back here on Monday with a draft letter of claim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold on that was a bit harsh.

I spoke with the EVRi complaints Facebook group to begin with,

a user on that group told me to send a letter but didn't give any specifics.

Here at CAG, I was looking more for specific help as I've never raised such a claim before, and wanted to be sure that my claim was correct, which is why I've researched information with the other groups too, to be sure; but you seem to have assumed that I've made some form of contact with the other groups, such that I find your comments and tone to be very unfair.

And I do know a thing or two about forums, that forum users are unpaid volunteers, I happen to be a Tableau Ambassador, and so perform a very similar role helping others in an unpaid capacity

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as we are clear .

Do the reading and post your letter of claim in draft form as requested and we can go from there.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we normally recommend people to follow the upload link

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we won't need to see all of the documents.

Your draft letter of claim should be a good start.

In terms of the declared value – I have the impression that you declared a value which was in line with the retail price. Is this something you sold or that you return to a supplier?
You will probably win this case but the value could become an issue.

Please clarify

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less.

But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item.

But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower.

I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss

Edited by steam_hammer
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it.

Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work.

Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations.

The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different.

The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach.

This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero.

Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position.

You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX.

Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover.

If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract.

I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX.

To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...