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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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JCI/Moriarty Claimform - old OVO UTIL dual fuel debt


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I have changed para 3 slightly because they say in one of their letters they have a copy of the agreements terms and conditions but they have not supplied them.

Particular's of Claim (for Reference only)

1.THE DEFENDANT OWES THE CLAIMANT £293.13 IN REPECT OF GAS/ELECTRICITY CHARGES SUPPLIED TO THE DEFENDANT BY OVO ENERGY LTD (DEBT)

2. WHICH DEBT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 31/12/2022 AND NOTICE OF WHICH WAS GIVEN TO THE DEFENDANT ON 31/12/2022.

3.DESPITE FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT OF THE DEBT THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO PAY AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £293.13

AND FURTHER CLAIMS INTEREST THEREUPON PURSUANT TO SECTION 69 OF THE COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 LIMITED TO ONE YEAR TO THE DATE HEREOF AT THE RATE OF 2.34% PER ANNUM AMOUNTING TO £6.86   

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2.Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim so the defendant is unable to defend specifically.

3. The claimant openly admits that they  have a copy of the agreement. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

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You are not responding to the numbered points of the particulars ...a complient defence must respond to each alleged point by either acknowledging accepting or denying.

Read their point 2 and then look at your point 2

We could do with some help from you.

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Right I see I didn't realise it had to be laid out like that. I have had another go, sorry I'm really struggling here!

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The claimant has thus far been unable to produce any evidence that the alleged debt has been legally assigned to them. Nor have they been able to provide evidence that notice of assignment was given to the defendant on the dates stated in the particulars of their claim.

3. The claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim or what dates it relates to. As a result the defendant is unable to specifically defend the claim until the claimant can show how the amount has been reached.

In the claimants particulars of claim, the claimant openly admits that they have a copy of the agreement and its terms and conditions but have failed to provide these to the defendant.

Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

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49 minutes ago, Cagney18 said:

In the claimants particulars of claim, the claimant openly admits that they have a copy of the agreement and its terms and conditions

Where ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry not in the particulars of the claim in their letter before claim they state this but have not provided any thing. 

I will change it to the claimant state they have the agreement and its terms and conditions but have not provided them. Other than this is the rest ok? 

Edited by Cagney18
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Irrelevant if its not in their particulars.

Look the crux of the defence is that you are being billed for energy (most probably daily Standing Charge amount) after the previous owner left.

So you want proof and dates from the claimant that pin points this debt was incurred by yourself after you took residence. Now we can throw in the the standard legal jargon that puts them to proof. The claimant is an assignee who bought the debt for pence from SSE/OVO they haven't a clue how it was incurred or by who and possibly wont have any paperwork to back up their pleadings.

What did did you take residence...what dates are on the charge from when and to ?

We could do with some help from you.

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On 17/06/2024 at 14:00, Cagney18 said:

I moved into my current property and SSE were the provider I switched to British Gas a few months in,

So who did you pay for the few months energy used before you switched to BG ? SSE? 

Cant be Ovo because they didnt take over until 2020.

We could do with some help from you.

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SSE

to be honest it was so long ago I can't remember how long I was with them for but I did switch pretty soon after I moved in.

I don't know what happened here with this bill I think it was that I couldn't afford to pay it at the time and had already switched to BG at this point and thought nothing would come of it.

I know not the right thing to do but was struggling at the time.

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Not to worry but these are the the kind of questions a judge will throw at you so you have to be ready and have the answers.

Can you scan redact and upload the documentation received (letter of claim) prior the claim so I can check all details.I will draft you a fresh defence in the morning so please upload so I have it to hand first thing. 

We could do with some help from you.

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<£300 so with a good defence and like most of these small sum util debts, jci will drop it before they have to pay any more fees.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Submit Defence today by 4.00pm

Cagney18 Suggested defence.pdf

  • Like 2

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok so should I opt for suitable for no hearing? or would it look better to opt for a hearing?

Also have they actually paid any court fees yet as if they have no paperwork on this why do they keep trying pursue this?

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Thats your decision, if you wish for them to determine it behind your back with no input from yourself.

They have paid to issue the claim and paid legal fee for issuance....not yet paid a hearing fee (should you both opt for one) 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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you should not be disappearing for a month and not reading up!


https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track/#comment-5088148


3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (that the issues are so complex they need to be argued orally')

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to their sols (omit phone/sig/email) if no sols send to claimant

1 for your file

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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