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    • Hi Mad and welcome to CAG, Shame you didn't come here before appeal. However, don't sweat that you've outed yourself as the driver. They don't have a leg to stand on. By their own Codes of practice, these clowns are supposed to allow 5 minutes for "consideration" (reading and understanding the signage). There is also a "grace" period of 10 minutes to exit the car park (in case it's busy). You can work out the timing implications yourself.😆 Anyway, the advice is to ignore everything UNLESS you get a "letter of claim", then come back here for help with drafting a "snotty letter". If you're in doubt about anything they send, just post it up here for advice. In the meantime educate yourself a little on what's involved. Try our "successes" forum... https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347084-ppc-successes-no-questions-please/page/18/#comment-5265126 Concentrate on recent ones, because advice and tactics do change over time.
    • That I get, but still confused about some of the advice above. On the one hand, I'm told that IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE no longer applies (in most cases?). And on the other, I'm advised that I might have shot myself in the foot by filling in their appeal form. Both cannot be correct.
    • Hi, hope that you can help with the PCN detailed below, unfortunately I have entered into correspondence (appeal) and identified the driver, hope that this doesn't have too much of an impact! On 26/05/2024 the driver entered the ANPR controlled car park to park but was unable to find suitable parking due to the car park being very busy. This took 11 minutes according to Wise ANPR details, this was due to other vehicles looking for parking and impeding the driver's progress. This has been appealed to both Wise Parking and IAS and the appeal has been rejected by both; unfortunately, the driver has been identified on the appeal. Note: the appeal response from Wise was not received until 04/07/2024, wise state (after me chasing) that it was sent by email on 17/05/2024 but this was not received and not in junk mail. I have completed the form below and attached correspondence (post and email) as a single pdf Please let me know if you need anything else.   1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024   2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 29/05/2024   3 Date received Around 04/06/2024   4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  Y   5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y   6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Y Unable to find /access details of my appeal to Wise, however I will have revealed the identity of the driver My appeal to IAS: You completed the appeal on 06/07/2024 23:38:42. The car was not parked on this land. The reason for this was that there were no available parking spaces. I drove the car around the car park a few times searching for a space but was unable to obtain a space due to it being busy. I then left the car park without parking, I therefor did not make use of their facility or have the opportunity to check their terms and conditions as I did not leave the car. The appellant made their response on 08/07/2024 09:52:52. As I did not park due to lack of opportunity a "parking" charge is not appropriate. As can be seen from the ticket, I was only onsite for a few minutes which backs up my assertion that I did not park. No evidence has been provided that I did park, only that I entered and left 11 minutes later.   Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Y   7 Who is the parking company? Wise Parking   8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Chapel Point, Chapel St Leonards   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS   If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here I have received a response from both Wise and IAS rejecting my appeal     Wise Parking PCN - 26-05-2024.pdf
    • You mean the mediation Service. It's not from the court  Offering a date and time?  Dx   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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JCI/Moriarty Claimform - old OVO UTIL dual fuel debt


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I have changed para 3 slightly because they say in one of their letters they have a copy of the agreements terms and conditions but they have not supplied them.

Particular's of Claim (for Reference only)

1.THE DEFENDANT OWES THE CLAIMANT £293.13 IN REPECT OF GAS/ELECTRICITY CHARGES SUPPLIED TO THE DEFENDANT BY OVO ENERGY LTD (DEBT)

2. WHICH DEBT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 31/12/2022 AND NOTICE OF WHICH WAS GIVEN TO THE DEFENDANT ON 31/12/2022.

3.DESPITE FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT OF THE DEBT THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO PAY AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £293.13

AND FURTHER CLAIMS INTEREST THEREUPON PURSUANT TO SECTION 69 OF THE COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 LIMITED TO ONE YEAR TO THE DATE HEREOF AT THE RATE OF 2.34% PER ANNUM AMOUNTING TO £6.86   

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2.Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim so the defendant is unable to defend specifically.

3. The claimant openly admits that they  have a copy of the agreement. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

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You are not responding to the numbered points of the particulars ...a complient defence must respond to each alleged point by either acknowledging accepting or denying.

Read their point 2 and then look at your point 2

We could do with some help from you.

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Right I see I didn't realise it had to be laid out like that. I have had another go, sorry I'm really struggling here!

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The claimant has thus far been unable to produce any evidence that the alleged debt has been legally assigned to them. Nor have they been able to provide evidence that notice of assignment was given to the defendant on the dates stated in the particulars of their claim.

3. The claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim or what dates it relates to. As a result the defendant is unable to specifically defend the claim until the claimant can show how the amount has been reached.

In the claimants particulars of claim, the claimant openly admits that they have a copy of the agreement and its terms and conditions but have failed to provide these to the defendant.

Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

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49 minutes ago, Cagney18 said:

In the claimants particulars of claim, the claimant openly admits that they have a copy of the agreement and its terms and conditions

Where ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry not in the particulars of the claim in their letter before claim they state this but have not provided any thing. 

I will change it to the claimant state they have the agreement and its terms and conditions but have not provided them. Other than this is the rest ok? 

Edited by Cagney18
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Irrelevant if its not in their particulars.

Look the crux of the defence is that you are being billed for energy (most probably daily Standing Charge amount) after the previous owner left.

So you want proof and dates from the claimant that pin points this debt was incurred by yourself after you took residence. Now we can throw in the the standard legal jargon that puts them to proof. The claimant is an assignee who bought the debt for pence from SSE/OVO they haven't a clue how it was incurred or by who and possibly wont have any paperwork to back up their pleadings.

What did did you take residence...what dates are on the charge from when and to ?

We could do with some help from you.

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On 17/06/2024 at 14:00, Cagney18 said:

I moved into my current property and SSE were the provider I switched to British Gas a few months in,

So who did you pay for the few months energy used before you switched to BG ? SSE? 

Cant be Ovo because they didnt take over until 2020.

We could do with some help from you.

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SSE

to be honest it was so long ago I can't remember how long I was with them for but I did switch pretty soon after I moved in.

I don't know what happened here with this bill I think it was that I couldn't afford to pay it at the time and had already switched to BG at this point and thought nothing would come of it.

I know not the right thing to do but was struggling at the time.

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Not to worry but these are the the kind of questions a judge will throw at you so you have to be ready and have the answers.

Can you scan redact and upload the documentation received (letter of claim) prior the claim so I can check all details.I will draft you a fresh defence in the morning so please upload so I have it to hand first thing. 

We could do with some help from you.

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<£300 so with a good defence and like most of these small sum util debts, jci will drop it before they have to pay any more fees.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Submit Defence today by 4.00pm

Cagney18 Suggested defence.pdf

  • Like 2

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thats your decision, if you wish for them to determine it behind your back with no input from yourself.

They have paid to issue the claim and paid legal fee for issuance....not yet paid a hearing fee (should you both opt for one) 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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you should not be disappearing for a month and not reading up!


https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track/#comment-5088148


3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (that the issues are so complex they need to be argued orally')

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to their sols (omit phone/sig/email) if no sols send to claimant

1 for your file

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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