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    • You typed it in? actually typed it all out? if so, maybe you took too long or something, like session timed out. Does the status show defence filed or no change?
    • Hi just typed all defence clicked next and it's deleted all. Any help
    • I forgot to say, there is one last possibility and that is that they will receive your letter of rejection and simply fold, accept the rejection and refund you. Don't wait too long for this. Seven days maximum – but in that seven days you could send your letter of claim anyway and when that you don't hear from them or when they start mucking around at least you are seven days closer to beginning the legal action – and they will know it (which is the important thing).
    • Okay that is excellent that you have an email between the garage and the warranty company confirming that there is a serious problem with the gearbox. That is very powerful evidence. I think the situation is this: you have sent them a letter of rejection but the reputation of big motoring world is that they won't take a lot of notice and they will try to prevaricate and maybe even blame you. Clearly you don't want the car any more and anyway it sounds as if the cost of repairs is going to be enormous. You don't know if the warranty company is going to step up to the mark but the whole thing is going to take a long time and I understand that you have lost confidence in big motoring world because of this event and also their reputation which you are now discovering on Facebook and on this forum and no doubt elsewhere. On the basis that you don't want the car any more and you want your money back, you need to hurry things along. I think the first thing is that you need to decide if you are prepared to bring a claim in the County Court. Even without the warranty money, the claim is worth more than £10,000. For actions less than £10,000, you bring a "small claim" and this means that even if you lose the case you won't be liable for the other side's costs. If you win the case then not only will you get your money plus interest but also you will recover all of the costs of the action. For actions more than £10,000, you go to something called the "fast track" and in the event that you lose the case, then you could be liable to reimburse the winner some of the costs. This means that in addition to not recovering your own money, you would lose your own court fees and also you would have to to bear the costs of the other side probably something less than £5000 – but as a rough guess. If you bring your court claim then your chances of success are almost 100%. Frankly if you brought a court claim then I can imagine that big motoring world will put their hands up and pay you out rather than face go to court and losing and getting a judgement against them. However, it you need to consider that this is a risk factor – although my view it is a negligible risk factor. If you did bring a court case, it wouldn't be instant. If they put their hands up then it would probably happen very quickly. If they didn't put their hands up then you could take anything up to a year for the matter to be resolved and during that time you would be without your car and without your money and in the middle of litigation. I'm explaining this to you say that you understand how it works. Bring a court case would be really the last resort when everything else has failed. However, I'm quite certain that you would win and it would be stupid of big motoring world to try to resist. In order to bring a court case you would have to send a letter of claim giving them 14 days to accept rejection and organise the refund otherwise you would begin the claim. Don't imagine that you could bluff this. If you did send a letter of claim then you would have to go through with it otherwise you lose all credibility and you might as well pack up and go home. So with this in mind, here are possible courses of action you could take. You can simply wait and see what their reaction to your letter of rejection will be. However they may not reply or else they may find some other reason to delay and of course during that time you will be without your car and without your money blah blah blah, not knowing if big motoring world were going eventually to start acting sensibly and respectfully towards you. The second thing you can do – and I think this has been suggested on Facebook – is that you can go along there and simply make yourself present and talk to other customers and generally speaking make a nuisance of yourself and embarrass them to the point where you would be explaining to other potential customers to be careful, to look on Facebook, and to do some careful research before they put their business to big motoring world. This has a reasonable chance of success although you would have to be careful. You should go accompanied by a friend and there should be no anger, no arguments, nothing that could be considered as being overly aggressive so that big motoring world would have no justification in kicking you out or even worse, calling the police. If you did this, then I would suggest that you record everything on the telephone carried in a pocket. A fully charged battery will probably keep a voice recorder and a telephone going for more than 20 hours or 30 hours. The other person can video any incidents so that everything is clear and you can inform big motoring world then it will be going up on the Internet. If you did this, my favourite option would be to issue the letter of claim giving them 14 days, and then going along to big motoring world with a copy of your letter of rejection and a copy of the exchange between the mechanic and the warranty company and a copy of your letter of claim – all settled together – and probably about 20 or 30 copies in all and I would start handing them out to any customers who came in. Big motoring world will soon get the picture and they will either move your the premises in which case you stand outside and carry on doing it or they will finally give in. Of course there is a chance that they won't give in and they will simply call your bluff – but in that case I think you have no choice other than to follow through with your 14 day threat in the letter of claim and to begin the legal action. At the same time you should be putting up reviews on Google and also trust pilot explaining exactly what has happened and also explaining that the mechanic has confirmed to the warranty company that there is the serious problem, that you have asserted the right to reject and that this is been ignored by big motoring world and that you have now sent a letter of claim and that you will be starting a legal action in 14 days. Once again, don't bluff about the legal action. If you threaten it – then you must mean it – and on day 15 you click of the claim. You don't need a solicitor for any of this. It's all fairly straightforward and of course we will help you all the way that it the decision is yours to make and I think you need to make it fairly quickly. I think the cost of starting an action for about £13,000 is 5% and then also if it goes to trial which I would say is almost impossible – there would be an additional fee. You would claim interest at 8%. A judge might award a lower figure but frankly if you can show that big motoring world is attempting to ride roughshod over your very clear statutory consumer rights, I can imagine that the judge will want to show displeasure by awarding the full 8% which is a pretty good rate – even though it's not compensation for the hassle and the distress you are going through. If you decide to get solicitor, then if you win the case, because it is over £10,000 you will recover some of your costs but you won't recover all of them. If the solicitor begins by having exchanges of letters then I doubt whether you will be up to recover the cost of those and you could easily find that you're chalking up 500 quid or even a thousand simply on initial exchanges of correspondence. Also you need to bear in mind that if after having exchanges with a solicitor, big motoring world cave in – then you definitely won't get those costs back because you won't have gone to court and therefore a judge will not have made the order for payment of those costs. I suggest very strongly that you avoid paying any money for a solicitor and that you do it yourself. It's not a big deal – although you will have to you react quickly to the help we offer on this forum. Also, an additional benefit is that you will learn a lot and you will gain confidence and eventually you will feel good about suing anybody else who gets in your way. Nothing not to like! If you do decide to instruct a solicitor then you must take control of the solicitor. Most of them prefer to sit in an office writing letters on the clock. If you do decide to instruct a solicitor then you must instruct the solicitor very firmly that they should send one letter of complaint giving seven days. A second letter – a letter of claim giving 14 days and that they must then begin the action. If you don't do this. If you don't take control then it will simply cost you money, you will be without your car even longer and of course without your money. The whole thing is a nightmare. I think I've laid out the options but please do ask questions. I hope you can see that this is the kind of advice that you won't be getting on Facebook. Nothing against Facebook. It's good as a meeting place and to make people realise that they aren't on their own – but after that the advice given is weak and confusing.  
    • What makes you say that?  I have no idea how I would go about that or why they would even entertain discussions now that they've won the Court case
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Backdoor CCJ for Shortfall of Car Finance from VWFS (Audi Financial Services) - Set Aside but lost later hearing - 2018 diesel scrappage scheme help needed - want to appeal


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Posted (edited)

Perfect, I will get this submitted this weekend then. Assuming I send to the same Court? Or to the Court of Appeal? Thank you

Edited by Unknown2024
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enquiries.Salisbury.countycourt@justice.gov.uk

send it here.

post up a redacted copy of your N164 please so we can make sure its filled correctly.

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I will do, that Court is useless they are terrible at checking their emails and have been throughout the whole process but I will submit it within the deadline so at least I'm covered. 

Have you any thoughts on my chances of winning an appeal, based on what you've read of the situation?

It all really comes down to the way the definition of a deposit is interpreted but my basis of appeal is on the grounds that the judge has misinterpreted the CCA1974

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I'll be honest I'm not the right person to ask about that sorry.

I also don't want to advise on something I don't know and get it wrong.

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Sorry for the delay. Please see attached redacted N164 form ready to send to the Court. 

Please let me know if there are any errors. In particular please double check the grounds for appealing and am I correct in asking for a new hearing or should I be asking to set aside? 

n164-eng (1)_copy.pdf

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On 18/05/2024 at 13:36, theoldrouge said:

Please post up the court bundle and the Audi Sar
You may have a case to appeal 
but if you appeal as a LIP you will surely fail 
Obtain a copy of R M Goode guide to the CCA1974

you need to do the above one mass file for the SAR

one mass files for their bundle

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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section 4 tick yes - so they can't enforce whilst your appeal is being dealt with

also you should put 25 month year not in numbers 

ok after that it should be good.

You need to click it off and send it to the court today else you’ll be out of time

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I cant advise on the grounds, but as a rule of thumb id say include things about the law.

ordering a new hearing means the claim will go before a judge again

set aside would mean the order isnt enforced but then presumably it gets further directions or something I’m not 100% I’m going to loop in  @AndyOrch in case he knows.

However I would go with a new hearing if I was in your position since you lost completely.

Did you turn up to the final hearing?

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Just checking, it says I have to fill in section 7a if I tick yes to section 4. What am I supposed to write? 

I did turn up to the final hearing and fought it as best as I could but I was ruled against.

I've been told I may still have a case by an online lawyer I'm speaking to so he's pushing me to appeal

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Ok firstly, if you are using an online lawyer then you should stick with them and not use two different places.

I can advise you but with the amount of people on this forum that need help, those who use two methods often get conflicting information which makes helping harder.

I see your case was ruled over by a deputy, which gives me more confidence in appeal as I've seen deputies make some very shocking decisions in my time on this forum.

Its up to you but you'll need to decide if you want to stick with this forum or an online lawyer.

 

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Hi,

 

 

For 7A I would just put something simple like

"It is the Defendant's position that the judge erred in law when reaching their decision, and the Defendant should not suffer any repercussions from a judgement that has been made based on an incorrect interpretation of the law. In the same or in the alternate, the court is asked to grant a stay of execution on the basis that the Defendant should not suffer the additional costs involved in enforcing a judgement nor the financial burden of having to satisfy a judgement that has (a) been reached on the basis of an interpretation of the law that the Defendant submits is wrong and (b) that may later be overturned. In the same or in the alternate, the court is asked to grant the same upon the court being satisfied that the appeal has a realistic prospect of success and therefore any proceeds obtained from the enforcement or otherwise satisfaction of the judgement would likely need to be returned. The Defendant submits that they should not be deprived of their ability to appeal a case due to the financial burden of having to satisfy a judgement that has been reached following an error in the judge's interpretation of the law and contracts.In the same or in the alternate, the court is asked to grant the same in the interim to allow the appeal to be handlded more effectively."

 

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That's brilliant thank you so much. I will add this in now and get it sent in today

Great news to hear that the Deputy Judge can often male these kind of mistakes, and the advice I have been receiving is all on legal seagulls and in public, similar to here so nothing to hide and no conflict of interest. The basis of my appeal comes down to the Judge basically acknowledging that my car was a part exchange but then he went on to disregard the CCA1974

Once I have the judgment transcript I will post up so that you can form an opinion on whether or not I have a chance to appeal, it is always good to get another opinion plus the retired lawyer who is advising me has not been active online for a few weeks and I'm at a point where I need direction with moving forward especially when it comes to compiling an appeal bundle etc

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yes yes get the appeal form in today.

send it by email

subject: Case Number - Claimant v Defendant - Defendant's Appeal Notice

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your welcome.

 

when you send your email make sure that you include a method of payment.

 

alternatively drop a paper copy of the application (along wiht a copy for service on parties) to the court with a payment.

 

not deemed as served without being paid.

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Okay that's going to be a problem I will need to phone and pay in that case but they never answer the phone, I didn't realise there was a fee to send an appellant's notice do you know how much it is? 

I can't find a thing about the fee online, only £142 under EX50 - County Court small claims track appeal fee is that correct? 

The N164 doesn't state anything about attaching the correct fee though I thought it was free to request permission to appeal? 

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Appeals (fees order 2.2 to 2.3)

£142

 

No permission to appeal is most definitely not free. 

otherwise everyone who lost would just appeal.

 

appeals take circuit judges time and therefore cannot possibly be free.

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