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    • OK - thank you. I understand the concept of LIP, and the need to keep my claim as simple and straightforward as possible. The legal arguments presented in what I called my skeleton statement were already in the original template I downloaded from this site. In that document I opened with "I am not proposing to set out the sequence of events." Might it be worthwhile for me to include a very brief timeline at that point, which would perhaps then allow it to become my witness statement? Or do you consider two separate documents are required? 
    • BF do you know where the instruction for skeleton has come from? Its just WX + docs. Do you think a skeleton is needed if the only issue in dispute is the legality of the exclusion terms. it seems excessive as well as wx no?   ah yes good point with LIP wx format i didnt think about the LIP judge softhand 
    • And incidentally, the really important part of this is that when you go to court, you are totally thorough and fluent not only with the facts – but with the effect of the legal points you are arguing. The facts are broadly not in dispute but the legal effect for instance of either having insurance or not having insurance. Of requiring insurance – these are the things you need to understand fully. Preparing your court bundle and eventually refining it bit by bit is terrific revision for you and will put you in control but also understanding its content fully and being fluent with its pages in the position of every point you are making is also essential.
    • Skeleton argument/witness statement – it's just a matter of terminology and we don't need to make an issue of it. Actually the three-page document that you have posted first of all and which you have called skeleton argument – is a witness statement which would be attached to the bundle which would be part of your indexed court bundle. I haven't looked at it in detail get or how it supports your claim or how it addresses any of the points made in the defence. I'll have to do that in the next two or three days. But for the moment, it looks fine. You have posted a second document which you are describing as an anonymized witness statement and as far as I can see, I agree with Cagger @jk2054 that much of your circle witness statement is a bit of a waffle and contains irrelevant information that you haven't remedied it in your final version which you say is chopped up. Also, you have received a suggestion of a template from Cagger @jk2054 and although this is going to be confusing for you, I don't think you should bother to use it. It is far too formal. You are a litigant in person and you need the flexibility of fully informing but informal documents which is what we are providing you with. We are suggesting models which we have been using over many cases and they all succeed in some them have been, complemented by the judge for the effectiveness and their clarity. You are litigant in person and one of the things you need to do is you need to have the judge on your side and helping you if necessary and this means that you don't want to start acting or talking or writing as if you are some kind of lawyer – you aren't. Being a litigant personage a certain sort of leverage and you should exploit that. The templates that we are suggesting to you are still not the templates that a completely un-advised person would use but they are still thorough. Stick to them. I suggest that you follow the advice given by the site team here and avoid confusion by switching horses. So for the moment I would suggest that you stick to your original skeleton argument – which follows the format that we have been using on this forum. We do like to see the fully prepared bundle please. I think there should be a next step. Have you got hearing date? Have you got a date for filing your bundle? In fact I have just looked back and I see that your filing date is 8 July. That's fine
    • First of all – as has already been pointed out to you, this is not a defect in the usual way that we understand and so that means that you don't need to rely on your 30 day and six months rights to reject. You can get MOT test done and it turns out to be an MOT failure for any reason then you have the added weight that they have is sold you an unroadworthy vehicle. Who did the existing MOT? I have a sense that it was big motoring world themselves in which case this would give you even greater leverage that if you have an MOT fail and it seems fairly clear that the reason for the failure is something which existed for some time that that would also cast doubt over the MOT provided by big motoring world and this would be even more serious. In any event, the vehicle is not as described and I think that this is an immediate ground for cancelling the policy and even better than that I think it would be a good ground for resisting any deduction made for mileage used – although we will have to deal with as it comes. I have read on Facebook that big motoring world tend to insist on quite a big deduction per mile and I have a sense that they do this because they know they can get away with it because they know their customers are really just happy to get rid of the vehicle any cost. You have told us you've got to a position where they seem to have agreed that you have now drawn a blank and they are being obstructive. Maybe you can lay out a bullet point chronology of exactly what has happened so far – point by point. I don't think you've told us how much you pay for the vehicle and also we want to know a list of the other expenses to which you been put including insurance et cetera and if you cancel the insurance how much you are likely to lose. How long is it not been driven? Why is it not been driven by your son? Didn't you planned for the more expensive insurance premium before you bought it? I have a sneaking suspicion that maybe you bought it and then was surprised at how expensive it was and are now finding a reason to return it. Please be completely level with us and tell us if this forms part of your reason for wanting to return it. We need to know everything – straight dealing – so we can help you in the best way possible. Otherwise we will have surprises sprung on us and we will all be embarrassed and you may lose. In fact I see that we don't know anything about the current all – make, model, mileage, or price paid which have already asked you about. Any reason that we don't have these very basic and obvious details without having to ask for them? You refer to the two new runflat tyres – why? Are these new ones which came with the car or these new ones which you had to buy and if so why did you have to buy them and how much they cost. It will be nice not to have to cross-examine your every detail. It will save a lot of time. Please have a look at this post carefully, discern the questions and address each one please.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Backdoor Link CCJ - old Barclaycard debt - Default Judgment set a side Sanctions imposed. **STRUCK OUT**


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4.  Under The Pre-Action Protocol 201?, a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior too and including ,The Pre action Protocol Letter of Claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claimform dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018.

9.   The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2nd February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.

re: 13 & 15...they dont need to produce the deed, thats a private b2b document only the judge can demand sight of.

i would remove 13 totally as within their WS they have produced the Notice Of Assignment. and delete it from 15

a few ideas.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Morning dx and thank you for your message.   With regards to your comment about them not needing to produce the deed, the additional directions ordered by the judge included 'a copy of any assignment o the debt or agreement relied upon'  so that is why I thought that point was relevant?

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Here is a draft which I have adapted you will have to incorporate some of your points and add exhibits if required. This deals with the main thrust of your argument. They have proof of payments up until 2015 so its best to be upfront that there was a debt be it assigned to BC but let them them find out which brand it was and if they can produce the necessary true documents to evidence their claim

Witness statement draft.pdf

 

Andy.

 

 

.

 

 

  • Like 1

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The relevant notes with regards to Reconstituted versions of an agreement if you wish to rely on an exhibit.

Waksman Reconstituted Agreements.pdf

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you so much Andy, I am making the amendments to my witness statement now.   

Would you be happy to take a final look over the document when I have finished? 

In terms of the bundle I need to send, the claimants sent the following documents

- should I include the same documents with my bundle or is there no need to? 

 

 

Description

1

Claim form

2

Order of the Court dated 15/06/2023

3

Note of Hearing dated 12/07/2023

4

Order setting aside Judgement dated 21/07/2023

5

Order of the Court date 01/09/2023

6

Draft Defence resubmitted on 11/09/2023

7

Notice of Change dated 22/09/2023

8

Directions Order dated 13/02/2024

9

Witness Statement

10

Appendices

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no need to duplicate their exhibits, simply refer to their exhibit no. in your WS.

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LouLouDev79 said:

Would you be happy to take a final look over the document when I have finished?

Sure ...no problem.:yo:

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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20 hours ago, dx100uk said:

   The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2nd February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.

what about^^^???

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

doh sorry was on phone screen.

i think thats all ok, 

let @AndyOrch confirm 1st please.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thank you so much!

Can I ask why the data access request to Barclays is irrelevant?

I wanted to show I had made every effort to obtain info relating to the debt, I have pages of correspondence between myself and Barclays showing how many attempts I made.

Also, should I put point 9 at the start so it is the first thing the judge sees?

If it gets struck out on that point then the rest would be irrelevant?  

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Because its not connected to this claim.....Ideally if you had received the claim you would have requested information pursuant to CPR 31.14 and a CCA request for the agreement. DSAR only reveals your personal data held which would be minimal with the this claimant.

You can leave it in if you desire but it adds no weight to your statement.

 

.

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27 minutes ago, LouLouDev79 said:

Also, should I put point 9 at the start so it is the first thing the judge sees? If it gets struck out on that point then the rest would be irrelevant?  

No because telling a story in your statement chronologically it would be out of run sequence. You would have to change the run sequence starting from finding the judgment to setting a side.

They have disclosed since and leniency will be allowed (subject to how long they delayed) and the court will disregard it even though it is their order.

 

 

.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you, that makes sense.  In terms of the additional directions, they were about 2 weeks late and only half of the things requested were included in their bundle.

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Then that would be a point to verbally introduce at the start of the hearing when asked to speak...then go into your statement.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you so much for all of your help, I will amend my WS as you suggested and get it sent off this afternoon.  

Then I guess I just have to sit and wait until the hearing and hope I get a sympathetic judge on the day! 

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Sympathy does not come into it I'm afraid...you argue your claim any judge that allows a judgment on that agreement and paperwork they have disclosed well its time to give up.

Important point to keep at the back of your mind ......you cant reconstitute (recreate) an agreement when the agreement was not the original agreement that BC transferred you to or one that you never entered into.

Modified agreements cannot be reconstituted.

 

.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi

On Friday I received a copy on email from the claimants solicitors with an attached relief from sanctions application - on the basis that the solicitor missed the deadline for the additional directions and it was an oversight on their part and that the claimant should therefore not suffer.   

They then attached a copy of the deed of assignment and a new witness statement. 

They stated that they would be happy to delay the court date by 28 days but that they believed both parties were ready for the court case on 7th June.

My first question,

is there anything I need to do or do I just sit and wait to see what is decided? 

Secondly,

is it likely the judge will be aware that the claimants solicitors did exactly the same in the set aside court case

(ie they filed their court bundle late applied for relief from sanctions on the morning of the court date, my solicitors had no choice but to agree because they threatened to strike my case out because my solicitors had only filed their court bundle by email and not post). 

This is a clear pattern of how these solicitors work rather than it being a one off oversight! 

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1 hour ago, LouLouDev79 said:

on Friday I received a copy on email from the claimants solicitors with an attached relief from sanctions application

Scan redact and upload please.

We could do with some help from you.

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Quote

14. The Claimant should not be disadvantaged due to the error of their solicitors.

:-D Wasn't aware that the court had imposed sanctions and struck the claim out ?

We could do with some help from you.

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I haven't been made aware of this.   

I rang the court to confirm receipt of my witness statement and bundle, along with my cover note stating it should be struck out due to non compliance by the claimants, they confirmed receipt but said as far they could see it hadn't been struck out.

Does this relief from sanctions application suggest that the case has been struck out?

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