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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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LC Asset/Link/Kearns Claim Form #2 - MBNA CC


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[if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant

Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton

Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L

Date of issue – . 28/04/23

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for – 

(1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.

(2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.

(3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx.

By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.

(4) And C claims-

1. 12,xxx.xx

2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment.

Date xx/xx/2023

What is the total value of the claim? 12k

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A
Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes

Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause

What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

-----------------------------------

My defence was standard no paperwork:

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information.

3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant.

4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited.
 
5. On the xx/xx/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the xx/xx/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is
yet to respond. To date, xx/xx/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request.

6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14,
therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:
(a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and
(b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974
(c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. 
....................

They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN, Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location

To re-iterate and highlight my urgent question on this one:

The N24 from the court did not include any instructions to submit paperwork 28 days before the date, unlike the N157 received for other smaller claims.

Do I have to submit a WS for this court date? (Link has!)... for a claim that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again.

Court date 25 May 2024

The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days..

BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it!

making me think I do need to!??

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3 hours ago, Badtimes123 said:

" at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case"

Thats because this claim has not been allocated as yet hence the above hearing *Case Management " to determine the directions (N157 Notice of allocation) which will follow after this hearing.

You are not requested to submit a statement but have all the details with you (claim form defence CPR CCA etc etc)

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for responding Andy, that was my understanding when receiving the N24, mild panic when I got Link's WS for the date though! not sure why they would send me theirs..

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Did the N24 invite either party to submit a statement ?

We could do with some help from you.

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No Andy, I'll scan, redact and upload later today.

So the court sent me 2 letters, same envelope and stapled together but with different dates!.

1. N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, stating:

UPON considering the papers herein

IT IS ORDERED THAT

The claim is listed for an attended hearing 25 May....... at which court will consider allocation..  etc

 

2. N24 Notice of PTR/Adjnd/Restored/Hrg/Management conference

TAKE NOTICE that the hearing will take place on 24 May at.......

When you should attend

30 minutes has been allowed for the Hearing

 

No other instructions anywhere in the envelope or on the letters.

Do I attend both?

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There will only be one hearing (typo possibly 25th is a Saturday Courts closed ) clarify with the court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Confirmed with Central Contact Centre that the hearing is 24th, disappointed I can't speak directly with the local county court

I have to email the local court apparently is the only way.

The agent couldn't explain the discrepancy between the two letters, she sounded very confused.

If they were identical letters in wording but only dates were different I would feel ok, slightly worried the wording differs...

CAG Site Team and Forum Helpers are unpaid volunteers

Over the years CAG has probably helped hundreds of thousands of people, only a small number of people come back and let us know what happened or to say thank you

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2. Is correct disregard 1.

You must attend as per the order 

 

.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 month later...

Court was last week to determine allocation.

I found a decent amount quite funny.. and so going to story mode a bit.

TLDR;

- Judge was awesome!
- Sol tried to get my MCOL defence struck out! judge was NOT happy! angrily telling the sol "No no no, you are not allowed to just bounce it, you know that, you can apply for that but you would have to prove to me that the defence should be!" he added that as point 1 to his final instructions.
- Judge confused it was at a allocation hearing, clearly a fast track in his mind
- Rulings on dates for next stages (discovery etc)
- Judge took time to explain to me the differences between small and fast track, especially the financial aspects (could be much more than small claims due to costs)
- Judge recommended I settle, without prejudice communications and get legal advice
- I asked a few questions at the end.

Once I've experienced Claim #1 on Monday, I will make a decision on this one.

Hopefully even if worse case and I lose claim #1, at least the sol knows I'm not scared to attend and defend.

Currently I think I will try to settle this one pre-court, however due to the times of these claims, best case I win Claim #1 and this one is easier to settle/I'll play the same hand.

---------------------------------------------

Alright, story time:

Young lad attending for claimant, barely a fetus, approached me moments before going in and we had a very strange interaction. This could be a 'you had to be there moment' but I found it very funny indeed.

Like some kind of spy meeting, he veeeery slowly sits down beside me, confirms who I am to which I'm very polite. Introduces himself and then says, very awkwardly "So, have you brought any documentation with you today?"

Now, I have a bright pink, partially see-through folder in my hand, filled with paper :D and I didn't know what to say!! ha I just looked at my folder and asked him what documentation he is referring to.. I perhaps thought he meant like my WS, because I hadn't submitted one for this and they had...  still really awkwardly he says "oh it doesn't matter it's just standard court practice" but he looked completely shell shocked, I still don't know why...

I ask "Sorry, aren't you the sol for the claimant? why are you commenting on court procedure to me? what exactly are you referring to when you say 'standard court practice'?" -  I was genuinely confused, like he wanted my folder or something.

He stands-up and mumbled "oh I meant settlement but it doesn't matter, I know this judge really well and he will explain it all to you" but he was so clearly lacking any confidence in the words coming out of his mouth and I'm so confused at this point I couldn't help it, I laughed, proper belly laugh out of nowhere.. I don't feel bad either..

I finished with stating "Oooooh settlement.. (still kinda chuckling) no I didn't come here today to settle thank you, did you?". He didn't answer and was mumbling to himself as he sat down, bright red..

He ignored me for the rest of the hearing :) even funnier (although I couldn't laugh as it was in court), the judge asked him a question and added "sorry I can't remember your name" hahhaaaa but young lad knows him well eeeeeee gotta smile..

I see that he was just a young sol (cheap resource prob 20 years old at the most) and so it wasn't a fair fight when it comes to a test of character.. I suspect most people he encounters 2 mins before court aren't quite as jovial as I was. I guess that was him trying to get me to mention settling first, or I don't know what it was. I think he will remember me lol

CAG Site Team and Forum Helpers are unpaid volunteers

Over the years CAG has probably helped hundreds of thousands of people, only a small number of people come back and let us know what happened or to say thank you

and an even smaller number of people ever think to make a donation.

If you are able, without leaving yourself short, consider donating, all donations go towards Site hosting and maintenance - help us stay live for future people in need.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

 

Essential Reading: Dealing with Customer Service

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usual stunts they all pull hoping you are wetting yourself and want to settle.

done also to unnerve and intimidate cause the judge is my mate.

thats why we always say never enter into little chats before you go in , smile ..walk away.

well done 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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