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    • Calm Down please.... there is only one way to deal with this and that is - PROPERLY. Being surrounded by 'lawyers' who deal with 'disputes', just like going to the likes of CAB, in this instance has, most probably, to date,  sadly not helping you here. Such people always project an Aura of confidence, when the truth is they don't actually have the vast successful experience of the members here in dealing with the likes BMW. there are over 350 threads here . as far i gather this is the situation, In April, a car was purchased by your son from BMW. Finance taken out to purchase it has since been paid in full, as well as full payment for an annual Insurance policy. within 6 weeks, it was discovered and confirmed in writing, via a report from a local garage, that the car indeed had numerous performance modifications undertaken. Namely being remapped and with modifications to the exhaust system. having contacted his ins co, they require a further £5k to uprate his policy, without it renders the existing insurance policy invalid, thus the car is not being driven.  again within this 6 weeks, you wrote to BMW rejecting the car (we need to see this letter please. scan it up to PDF, please read our UPLOAD guide). at first BMW were onboard, even sending their own inspector, confirming the mods etc. but in the last 9 days since said inspection, comms have now gone dead. .................. you have 2 options - 1 - allow BMW to sort the car FOC and without hassle to him, but probably within their own snails pace timeframe. 2- EVENTUALLY bring legal action - this would most probably be under contract law, not a claim under the consumer rights act . (as financially you would lose out big time) to do 2. which is not easy and rather complex to calculate the financial sum involved...... we need all the info @BankFodder has requested. of many, but one good reason for this is say for this new mot, show the old one was suspect, good bargaining chip against 2500mls usage deductions... your call but you need to do this properly or not at all...............    
    • Hi, I've been reading through many of the stories in the sub-forum and I understand the process to be to send a Letter of Claim to the EVRi - in the post and to their customer support email and to sign up for MCOL.  I have looked at the various Letters of Claim and the MCOL claim forms - particulars of claim and I have gone through all of the screens on MCOL website to put in the final details so it is ready to go after the 14 days from when I send the Letter of Claim (of course assuming that EVRi dismisses my Letter of Claim to pay me in full!).  I also see the advise is to decline any mediation particularly because I have specified the parcel contents and value to EVRi when shipping it. I have put both the Letter of Claim and the forms from the MCOL particulars of claim into a single PDF for review.  The stories in the sub-forum often indicate people shipping with EVRi but some purchase through or have involved such companies as Parcel2Go and so I wasn't sure about the statement I made in the Letter of Claim if it was totally accurate to say "I am applying my third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999"? I just wanted to confirm the correct wording.  In my case the parcel shipment was paid for on the EVRi website and sent at the Tesco EVRi Parcelshop.  On the MCOL claim form I have referenced Section 57 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in response to EVRi customer service hiding behind their lack of ability to insure delivery of laptops and their bogus non-compensated and prohibited items as a means to avoid any responsibility for them losing such items. Thank you for taking a look to see if there are any inaccuracies or amendments to the Letter of Claim - when it is looking good I will send via email and post it to EVRi.  Having drafted the particulars of the claim on MCOL, I shall be ready to submit the claim on the MCOL site when the 14 day period has elapsed and proceed from there.   Thanks for everyone's help! Letter of claim and MCOL Particulars of Claim.pdf
    • Wow quite surprised by your response in all honesty as I can’t see where you have requested details of the car. The car is insured and that was budgeted for and paid in full, the increase of £5k is because of the modifications, which no we didn’t budget for as we didn’t plan to buy a modified car, so no that doesn’t form any part of wanting to return the car, perhaps you don’t understand the impact modifications have on insurance premiums? Thanks for your help so far but feel going the legal route probably suits us better.
    • new thread created for the court claims. please complete this twice and i'll make another thread from the 2nd PDL Claimform we need to keep them sep.  
    • Most banks do not have any customer service staff available to support those opening a new current or savings account, according to research for Investec Bank.View the full article
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

@ClinkardCars/Alphera/BMW Finance - 2022 car turned out crash damaged - FOS involved


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Especially because you have bought the car on finance, there is probably quite a lot that you can do although it sounds as if you are maybe taking the appropriate steps anyway.

However you need to give as much more information.

We need to know – the name of the dealer
details of the vehicle, make, model, mileage, age, price paid – 70 8K?

The name of the finance company – and some dates. Date purchased, the date that you have logged this with the FOS and I'm sure there will be other questions.

I suppose that you don't understand your consumer rights very well because issues like the sunroof et cetera should have been repaired by the dealership and there was no need for you to spend your own money on this.

On the basis of what you have told us, I would suggest that eventually should be up to recover all of your money plus the expenses you have incurred in carrying out repairs.

And in fact – you could also list out the faults which have manifested themselves so far and the money you have spent on correcting those.

You are entitled to purchase a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality remains that way for a reasonable period of time. At £78,000 I wouldn't expect any serious issues to manifest themselves in this vehicle for quite a few years.

Tell us also about the £2400 inspection that you have had carried out. Were you advised to do this? To do this of your own initiative? Who carried it out?

That lot for a start

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If it wasn't safe I wouldn't ask you

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Thank you .

Please stand by for a reply later on

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Clinkardcars/Alphera/BMW Finance - 2022 car turned out crash damaged - FOS involved

I think that we will still have to understand more of the details here. However, one of the first things that I notice is that I asked you questions about listing out the defects for which you had paid and how much you had paid to have them repaired – and I don't think you answered this.

In order to have processed this to the FOS, you will have had to have received a final response from the finance company. Please could you post up your PDF format.

You say that you paid some of this on finance – is it straight loan or is it hire purchase. I expect that it is an agreement under the consumer credit act – but maybe you would confirm this.

It's a shame that you didn't understand your rights from the beginning. There was really no need to purchase a warranty – especially as you can see now that as soon as you try to invoke the warranty they start finding excuses not to provide you with the help that you thought you are buying.

However it is certainly helpful that everybody is admitting that the problem existed when you bought the car and that is important.

Your rights are that when you buy vehicle it is of satisfactory quality and it remains that way for a reasonable period of time. From what you have told us, the vehicle was not of satisfactory quality and in view of the seriousness of the defect – the crash damage – you are entitled to reject the vehicle immediately and demand a refund.

You haven't done this and instead you have allowed yourself to be led around by the nose and of course this is a great way that the dealer has managed to avoid their consumer responsibility and of course the finance company is being similarly uncooperative.

You haven't told us much about the reason that the finance company has declined to help you. Maybe you could give a brief explanation but also produce a final response.

Your consumer rights were – in addition to have a vehicle of satisfactory quality – that if any defects at all occurred within the first 30 days, you had the right to reject it and demand a refund immediately. If any defects manifested themselves within the first six months, you had the right to reject the vehicle subject to a single opportunity for the dealers to repair it. If the repair failed or if they declined to repair it then you would be entitled to reject.

You haven't taken advantage of any of these rights and so therefore you have lost them.

However, the car must be of satisfactory quality and this would generally mean that any defects would be repaired at the dealers expense.

However it seems to me that the crash damage is probably not repairable and so to that extent the vehicle is probably a write off as far as you are concerned. In law this would amount to a "fundamental breach of contract" and this would allow you to treat the contract as at an end and to demand a refund of all money paid and any ancillary expenses incurred as a result of the contractual breach.
Some kind of deduction might be made for mileage used while the car was still running.

Now that you have gone to the financial ombudsman, you are effectively prevented from taking a court action. You could take a court action but immediately that would mean that the FOS would terminate their investigation because they will not conduct an investigation in parallel with an  ongoing court proceedings.

Normally we would have advised you to take a court action – but here you are dealing with a lot of money. If the value of the dispute had been less than £10,000 then you could comfortably go to Small Claims Court and the most you would risk would be your claim fee if you lost.

Here you are talking about a very substantial sum of money and although on the basis of what you say your chances of success would be 99%, there is still a tiny risk but also the fact that you are dealing with such a large sum could encourage the dealer or the finance company to lawyer-up and simply try to outspend you on the litigation.

So for the moment, your best position is to stay with the FOS and see what they have to say however you should understand that you don't have to accept their decision at the end.

If they find in your favour but simply makes a very meagre award then you could reject that award but the ombudsman is finding would be very helpful to you in court and would strengthen your position.

Please give us the extra information that we have asked. Please will you look at our responses to you carefully and make sure you address all questions which are asked so that we don't have to try and chase around the block for answers to questions which we asked and for some or other you have missed out.

A couple questions – how far away from you are the dealer?

When you bought the car – did it have a brand-new MOT – and if so who gave it its MOT? Have you had an MOT subsequently?

 

And finally, for the moment, have a look at the advice we give if you follow the link to our used car guide

 

 

And just to add – in case you don't feel bad enough – the dealers have a legal obligation to maintain your vehicle and to make sure that it is in satisfactory condition.
This means that they are obliged to carry out any repairs free of charge and getting you to pay for a warranty is a con trick. They have effectively persuaded you to shell out for repairs which they were legally obliged to do for free.

 

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  • BankFodder changed the title to @ClinkardCars/Alphera/BMW Finance - 2022 car turned out crash damaged - FOS involved

Strange final response. They say that they are still investigating but they are giving you their final response anyway.

Seems like a load of nonsense.

Have you got a copy of what you then sent to the ombudsman?

Anyway, for the moment although would like to know – it really is all for curiosity because as you have put it into the hands of the ombudsman it's probably not worth doing anything more until you have a reply.

I would suggest that when you decide to spend this kind of money in future on a used car, that you understand exactly what your rights are before you make the purchase.
When you buy anything – and maybe especially used car you should realise that you aren't only paying for the car, you are also paying for a bundle of consumer obligations which are intended to bind the dealer. You are paying for a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time and you are paying for any defects which emerge to be addressed and repaired at the expense of the dealer.

We've already pointed out that by purchasing the warranty, they have effectively persuaded you to pay for something for which you have already paid.

Very decent of you not to want to cause trouble in respect of defects which manifested themselves within the first few weeks. I have no idea why. For £78,000….

This you say that they were age-related problems – that is still no reason why those defects should have been there or why the dealer should not have been responsible for them.

It seems to me that you have a clear case against the dealer/the finance company. We don't have many or any PCP purchases on this forum. However, it seems to me that the finance company is probably responsible for the condition of the vehicle because effectively you have bought it from them and to that extent it should be the same as HP.

With a hire purchase agreement, it is as if you bought the vehicle directly from the finance company not from the dealer and it is the finance company which bears all the consumer obligations.

I think the only thing you can do is to monitor the situation. Update us when you hear from the financial ombudsman and if you need to take the matter to court then we will help you. In principle it should be straightforward – but certainly there is a risk of a serious bill for costs if you lose. I don't see you losing.

Did you say somewhere that the report suggested that the vehicle was unroadworthy?

Have you got the advertisement for the vehicle? Does it make claims for the vehicle which are clearly untrue?

And by the way, four hours away from you is what kind of distance?

Have you read our used car guide? Have you looked at the video?

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You should start putting everything in writing.

Even the ombudsman, to begin a serious complaint by telephone is quite frankly crazy.

I hope you have taken a copy of at least the advertisement that you have posted above. 

I don't suppose that you kept a copy of the original AutoTrader advertisement. 

How much in writing have you got of anything?

I would suggest also that you telephone the ombudsman tomorrow and ask them for details of the complaint that they have received from you and tell them that you want it in writing. 

You will be amazed how scant The records of which are kept by these people.

Read our customer services guide and at least actually give you some idea of how you should deal with customer service people or any call handlers on the telephone. 

It is very important that you get a written summary of the report which you made to the ombudsman so that you can see exactly what they are investigating.

The complaint to the ombudsman should have been very carefully considered over a period of time rather than simply made in a phone call

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