Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

eBay parcel worth £265, booked via Parcel 2 Go, 'lost' by Evri


Recommended Posts

Afternoon All. I have today received a court order requiring me to send them more details before 16:00 on 8 July. A copy of the order is attached, but the relevant paras seem to be:

2

Send all of the documents that are relevant to your case to the court at the above address, also send them to the other side. Both parties must do this. These documents should be placed in date order and should be numbered in the bottom right hand corner.

You should include the following documents if available:

       A copy of the contract/agreement

       Relevant correspondence, including text messages and emails Photographs

Before 4pm

08 July 2024

3

Send to the court and send to the other party your own witness statement and also witness statements from anyone who can give relevant evidence about your case. Both parties must do this.

A witness statement must

       have the court case number at the top

       start with the witness’ name and address

       it must contain numbered paragraphs and should be typed and double spaced. If not typed, it must be written clearly in block capitals or printed.

       finish with the words “I believe the facts set out above to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth”, the date of the statement and the person’s signature.

The original statement must be sent to the court and copies must be sent to the other side.

Before 4pm

08 July 2024

I'm a little confused by para 7 in the order :

Because this order has been made by a Legal Adviser without a hearing, you have the right to request that the decision of the Legal Adviser be reconsidered by a District Judge. Any request must be sent to the court to arrive by 4PM 12 June 2024. The request may be made in your online account, by email or on paper. The request must include an explanation of why the reconsideration is sought.

Is this normal? Do I have to do anything with this by 12 June?

As ever, many thanks
 


 

527MC352-claim-direction-order (anonymised).pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Evening All

I am now working on pulling together my bundle of docs for Court (it needs to be submitted by 8 July) and have three parts I'd be most grateful for your thoughts on please.

The first is a time line / case summary, the second concerns Items Not In Dispute and the third (I hope) sets out where P2Gs insistence that they are only liable for the first £20 of any claim falls foul of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and also cites three cases where different judges found against P2G and ParcelHero Ltd when they attempted to argue their very limited liabilty was warranted. Anonymised pdfs of all three sections are attached.

Given that in their Defendant's Response P2G appear to have conceeded that the eventually delivered parcel was empty, and that the contents had not been handled with due care and attention, do I need the amount of detail I have included in the summary document, or do you consider a significantly shortened version would suffice?

As ever, many thanks

g59

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but please could you post your documents in a single PDF – multipage single file format.

You have seen other witness statements that we want them presented in broadly the same way

 

Have you read what we have to say about preparing your court bundle?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link. I have seen/read several bundles on various posts here, but was unaware of your guide. I shall now prepare mine accordingly and will then repost.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the system we have used for many years and sometimes even gets complimentary comments from the judge. It is generally much better presented than the other side.

In fact they are following the threads on this forum and it's about time they upped their game and followed our court bundle guide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Afternoon guys

Please see attached a single file pdf doc using your skeleton argument. I've downloaded copies of all the cited legislation and the three precedents, and will incorporate them once you're happy with this document. I'll then repost the (hopefully) full bundle ready for submission to the Court cc P2G.  

Many thanks

g59
 

Anonymised completed 'skeleton' argument @ 22Jun24.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks jk2054

- I took the skeleton argument provided previously on this group and completed it with the details relevant to my case.

I sought confirmation it was OK from your point of view after which I will add all the supporting docs and the index.

If you would rather I pulled the whole thing together now, I'm happy to do so.

   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right ok thats very different to what I've seen before but fine not a problem.

Have you done your witness statement?

underpaid paralegal

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Look at something like the attached format.

your SOT is important and should be amended

Template WX DOPS.pdf

also yours is very waffle / too informal/ contains irrelevant info

 

try to cut it down - stick to the facts

go through a timeline in date order of buying, dropping off, key tracking updates, delivered

then focus on contact with P2G - nobody cares about the contact with EVRi in all honesty

you need to put the law in - so s49, 54, 57, 72

Edited by jk2054

underpaid paralegal

Link to post
Share on other sites

Skeleton argument/witness statement – it's just a matter of terminology and we don't need to make an issue of it.

Actually the three-page document that you have posted first of all and which you have called skeleton argument – is a witness statement which would be attached to the bundle which would be part of your indexed court bundle.
I haven't looked at it in detail get or how it supports your claim or how it addresses any of the points made in the defence.
I'll have to do that in the next two or three days. But for the moment, it looks fine.

You have posted a second document which you are describing as an anonymized witness statement and as far as I can see, I agree with Cagger @jk2054 that much of your circle witness statement is a bit of a waffle and contains irrelevant information that you haven't remedied it in your final version which you say is chopped up.

Also, you have received a suggestion of a template from Cagger @jk2054 and although this is going to be confusing for you, I don't think you should bother to use it. It is far too formal.

You are a litigant in person and you need the flexibility of fully informing but informal documents which is what we are providing you with. We are suggesting models which we have been using over many cases and they all succeed in some them have been, complemented by the judge for the effectiveness and their clarity.

You are litigant in person and one of the things you need to do is you need to have the judge on your side and helping you if necessary and this means that you don't want to start acting or talking or writing as if you are some kind of lawyer – you aren't.
Being a litigant personage a certain sort of leverage and you should exploit that.

The templates that we are suggesting to you are still not the templates that a completely un-advised person would use but they are still thorough. Stick to them.

I suggest that you follow the advice given by the site team here and avoid confusion by switching horses.

So for the moment I would suggest that you stick to your original skeleton argument – which follows the format that we have been using on this forum. We do like to see the fully prepared bundle please.

I think there should be a next step.

Have you got hearing date? Have you got a date for filing your bundle?

In fact I have just looked back and I see that your filing date is 8 July. That's fine

Link to post
Share on other sites

And incidentally, the really important part of this is that when you go to court, you are totally thorough and fluent not only with the facts – but with the effect of the legal points you are arguing.

The facts are broadly not in dispute but the legal effect for instance of either having insurance or not having insurance. Of requiring insurance – these are the things you need to understand fully.

Preparing your court bundle and eventually refining it bit by bit is terrific revision for you and will put you in control but also understanding its content fully and being fluent with its pages in the position of every point you are making is also essential.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

BF do you know where the instruction for skeleton has come from? Its just WX + docs.

Do you think a skeleton is needed if the only issue in dispute is the legality of the exclusion terms. it seems excessive as well as wx no?

 

ah yes good point with LIP wx format i didnt think about the LIP judge softhand 

Edited by jk2054

underpaid paralegal

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK - thank you. I understand the concept of LIP, and the need to keep my claim as simple and straightforward as possible. The legal arguments presented in what I called my skeleton statement were already in the original template I downloaded from this site. In that document I opened with "I am not proposing to set out the sequence of events." Might it be worthwhile for me to include a very brief timeline at that point, which would perhaps then allow it to become my witness statement? Or do you consider two separate documents are required? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...