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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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eBay parcel worth £265, booked via Parcel 2 Go, 'lost' by Evri


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Afternoon all

1. I sold a second-hand set of 8 golf clubs on eBay on 17.3.24 for £250 plus £15 for delivery (a total of £265) to a buyer in Cardiff.

2. I bought Evri ParcelShop Next Day delivery via Parcel 2 Go for £9.10 online. I declared the parcel as second-hand golf clubs and their value at £265. I did not purchase any additional ‘insurance’.

3. I carefully packed the clubs, and, as requested by Evri included in the package a note providing the buyer's address, and delivered them to my local Evri ParcelShop, from where Evri tracking shows they were collected the next day (18.3.24) before being sorted at the local depot. 

4. On 19.3.24 the Evri tracking stated "We’ve not been able to deliver today due to a road incident. We’ll update tracking as soon as your parcel is out for delivery” and that's where their journey apparently ended.

5. After daily interactions with the Evri Chatbot, and some emails from their Customer Services Dept the parcel did not move and was initially declared as 'misplaced' before a telephone call from Evri Customer Services on 27.3.24 advised they could not find the parcel, which I should therefore assume had been lost. I asked about a refund and was told I should take it up with Parcel 2 Go.  

6. I opened a claim with P2G that same day and provided copies of all relevant documents. They said they would liaise with Evri. I also refunded the buyer in full (£265).

7. On 3.4.24 P2G emailed to say they were they were “happy to inform you that we've made an offer against your claim regarding the following order: P2G123005161. We'll refund the cost of delivery on top of your claim settlement.” Their offer was for £20 plus the delivery cost of £9.10 so a total of £29.10. I clicked on the 'Reject Offer' box and when it I was asked why, I typed in ‘£265 + £9.10 = £274.10'    

8. That same day they emailed me advising they were sorry their offer ‘did not meet with (my) expectations’ and that they’d review the case and get back to me shortly. 

9. On 8.4.24 P2G email me back to say “After reviewing your case and careful consideration, we believe that we have offered a fair settlement and have decided not to increase our offer.” 

10. I've spent a few days reading lots of posts and cases on this site, and intend to pursue this case and (hopefully) get my £274.10 back. I understand the first stage should be a Letter Before Action, and my first question is should this be sent to Parcel 2 Go, who sold me the 'service' or Evri, who lost the parcel?

Many thanks in anticipation - G59

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Your claim is against P2G.  You contracted directly with them and it will make life a little bit more complicated to sue EVRi – although you could do but we may as well keep it simple.

Please start doing a lot of reading of the stories on this sub- forum. It doesn't matter which company they involve – the important thing is to understand the principles.

When I say do a "lot of reading" – I mean lots and lots. It's pretty straightforward but it is important that you understand the principles so that you are confident going forward.

We will be helping you all the way but we would like to feel that you are properly invested. Do the reading. I reckon between two days and three days worth.

Bear in mind that the principal reason for their refusal to reimburse you will probably be the fact that you didn't buy insurance. Ensure that you pay attention to what we have to say about parcel delivery insurance and in particular section 57 and also section 72 of the consumer rights act 2015.

When you think that you are in charge of all the detail, start drafting a letter of claim and post a draft here so that we can have a look.

Although it will be reasonably straightforward – don't expect it to be quick. These people drag it out simply to raise obstacles in order to discourage others. At the end of the day they will pay out or if it goes to trial you will win.

You should understand that they will exploit a publicly-funded scarce resourced overworked County Court system in order to frustrate legitimate claims.
Even with a payout to you, they will probably set the money off against tax.

Get going – to the reading – and post your letter of claim here

 

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Perfect. Nice and brief and to the point. You don't bother to start telling your life story.

Just the way it should be.

Send it off. You have probably done enough reading to understand that it won't make any difference don't start drafting your particulars of claim. Open an account with the MoneyClaim County Court system and start preparing.

Post your particulars of claim here before you click it off.

You may have noticed that at some point you will be asked if you want to go to mediation on this. We used to advise it but now we recommend that you decline mediation and go to trial.

Your chances of success are much better than 95%. Going to trial will incur an additional hearing fee but of course you will get that back.

However if you go to mediation, they will simply try to penny pinch and to get you to compromise and also they will sign you up to a confidentiality agreement and probably threaten you if you breach it.

Not only that, if the mediation fails because you stand your ground, it will add additional delay while they then give you a date to go to trial.

The best thing to do is to decline mediation – prepare for court hearing. Pay the extra fee. The chances are that rather than get a judgement against them they will then offer you a full settlement rather than go to court.
If they do offer you full settlement then you will be obliged to accept it – but that's what you want. If they don't offer you full settlement then you will go to trial and there will be a judgement against them.
Just so that you understand, our first interest is that you get your money back – but a close second is that it does go to trial and there is a judgement which we will then be able to use to help other people.

Anyway as you should realise, we will help you all the way.

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Thanks very much Bank. I have topped and tailed my LOC and printed off a copy which I shall post tomorrow by First Class post at my local post office and also obtain a proof of postage. I'll also email them a copy.

I've opened a MoneyClaim account, and shall now begin work on my draft Particulars of Claim which I shall post here for your thoughts.

And I shan't be using the Moderation service.

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Just now, jk2054 said:

You may find you have to do mediation

I'd like to know why you have to do mediation please

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

I'd like to know why you have to do mediation please

https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/2024/04/11/preparing-for-the-requirement-to-mediate-in-small-claims-what-you-need-to-know/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=

 

Please see the above HMCTS Blog post

 

It's also here: https://twitter.com/HMCTSgovuk/status/1778399119435862264

 

Edited by jk2054

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Yes, but not yet. It only applies to cases which have been filed about the 20th or so of May.

 

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Posted (edited)

Yep thats why I said may find, I couldn't remember what day it came into force just that it was in may.

 

Although it does seem that if you raise the claim on the new system (OCMC) you don't need to go to mediation, so this may be the way forward for the group, if we want to aviod mediation, since I see it is only for the legacy MCOL and paper claims and not OCMC claims yet.

Edited by jk2054

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We will have to see whether they ask you if you are prepared to compromise and also if you are prepared to keep the result secret.
If they ask these questions then we will certainly advise people to say – No – and – No.

There should be absolutely no compromise at all with any of the parcel delivery companies and there should be no reason for secrecy

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That's true actually, I wonder what will happen if people dont say yes to their 3 questions because that would mean its nto suitable.

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An interesting moderation debate chaps!

But something very strange has happened with my claim today.

Shortly after I posted the Letter of Claim to P2G I received a text message from them - "Your parcel (P2G-123005161) was delivered at 12.55 to CF5 *** (original buyer's post code) with Evri Drop-off

I messaged the buyer (who I refunded in full (£265) for the original non-delivery on 27 March) and asked if it had indeed turned up. He confirmed it had been delivered and taken in by his wife, with a photo taken to confirm delivery. But the box I'd so carefully packed the clubs in was, of course, empty, except for the original packing material I'd used, and the buyer's details which I'd also included in the box. I'd used getting on for half a roll of heavy duty black ducktape to seal the box, especially at both ends, and the buyer advised one end had been cut/torn open (likely when the 8 golf clubs were extracted) and then loosely resealed. 

Needless to say, no explanation for the 1 month delay in delivery, and Parcel2Go have emailed me this evening to advise they've decided not to approve my claim as 'The parcel started to track'.

Grateful for your thoughts on this significant new development. I presume the onus is now upon me to prove the parcel was empty upon delivery - how would you suggest I tackle that? And should I draft and submit a new Letter of Claim to P2G, resetting the 14 day clock?   

Many thanks

G59 

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No change in advice. Get the purchaser to take lots of photographs and if possible send you back the empty box – you will have to pay for that I suppose but you will get it back from EVRi.

You may want to send a slight amendment to your letter of claim – but the date stays the same.

Get a move on so you can get the claim filed well in advance of the compulsory mediation date which quite frankly will only get in your way especially as it is new and nobody really understands the rules yet

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Hi

As with BF I don't agree you need to change the date on your LOC.

Secondly, i see you say onus on you to prove, this isn't true. You will need to show on the balance of probabilites. I would start by getting written confirmation from the buyer of the matter. This along with the month delay I would expect will be the burden that the court need.

Also I would say you could add tort here although BF will likely advise on this

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Quote

Dear David Jeremia Schnur 

reference number XXX

Thanks for your email.

I set out my position quite clearly in my letter of claim and nothing's changed.

Your insurance requirement is unlawful and is contrary to section 57 of the consumer rights act and also section 72 of the same statute.

My deadline for action still stands.

I expect you can hear it ticking….Tick-tock tick-tock

Signed

 

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Have you started preparing your claim yet? I expect that you can hear the deadline getting closer as well

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Yup – why not. It can't hurt

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure including employees middle names is appropriate

 

You should be addressing people as they sign off

Edited by jk2054

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I don't think it matters but whatever makes you feel comfortable. However I do think that you need to show that you are occupying the high ground and that you won't be controlled

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