Jonathan B V Nationwide - Underpaid

[Calculator]

Laxdale,

 

If you want any info regarding the Mercantile Court, see the sticky thread 'Mercantile Court Guide' http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mercantile-court-cases-stays/34297-mercantile-court-guide.html at the top of this forum if you have not already seen it. Post 1 is Commercial and Admiralty Court (CPR58 & CPR61), but I think post 3 is the one you need, ie your letter states CPR 59 rules which is the Mercantile Court.

I'm not sure if you will need to submit a CMI sheet - your letter does not seem to ask for one. Best thing is to phone the Court if you are in any doubt about if one is needed.

[Muffintop]

I had a similar issue with Nationwide in april when my claim was paid prior to court proceedings. I stated I wanted the full amount and wrote using a template that said this is only a partial settlement, they then sent me a summary of their breakdowns and when i looked at it against my calculations i could see some inconsistencys on my part. this was my first claim and I duplicated some of my costs from the statement and then again from the notice of charges. My thoughts on this are... if you are 100 percent sure that you have evidence to prove they are wrong then proceed and dig your heels in, I would go for the wasted costs at this point too if you have the bottle.I found out this was the point at which i should have asked for my costs and waited until the case was settled which seems to be too late.

[crazyworld]

Hi Laxdale, I'm still learning about the court process, although have learned a lot so far from this great site. (am about 1 week and a bit away from filing a claim myself at the moment)

 

Hang in there, you're in the right.

 

All the best

[GaryH]

Laxdale,

 

First thing is not to worry. I know it seems scary being transfered to a higher court an all that, but its actually very common for the majority of Central London claims.

 

Another thing to note is that the small claims costs provisions will (probably) apply - so you haven't got that worry hanging over you.

 

Its unlikely to get that far, I really can't see them not settling, but you need to decide whether you'd like to attend the hearing or submit written representations instead - which you've been given the option to do if you wish.

 

Am I right in thinking that they've settled most of it, but are £170 short?

 

If so, you need to include in your written representations a concise summary of events and highlight the fact that the only real issue outstanding is the amount of the settlement figure.

 

I honestly can't see the claim progressing to the Mercentile on that issue alone - its hardly test case material, basically all your doing now is haggling over the figures. Chances are you'll be transferred back to small claims, or perhaps the judge will stay for a month to iron it out, or he may even make an order that Nationwide pay the difference.

 

Include in your representations a schedule showing clearly the amount claimed in charges, interest and fees so you can demonstrate what they've paid and what they haven't.

 

I should also say, are you sure the amount you've claimed is correct? Best just to check that you haven't included any genuine account service fees or normal OD interest.

[GaryH]

Also, if you have a look at the link MTM provided above, you'll notice that the judge presiding over your claim is the same one who critisised the banks in the BBC article, so at least he understands the issues and is fully aware of the banks tricks and dirty tactics - which, unfortunately, a lot of judges still seem to be oblivious to.

[speedy016]

Hi Jonathon

 

Just wanted to post a thread to offer my support and let you know that everyone is routing for you.

 

From reading your thread I don't think you have anything to worry about because according to other threads they deal with cases in bulk so their will be a lot of people there that are in the same boat as you!!

 

In my opinion (which probably isn't worth a lot cos I'm new on here) I think it might be a good thing because everyone will have all their paperwork as well as you so you will all stand and fight your cause together.

 

I wish you all the luck with your claim but I don't think you'll need it, I think the banks are running scared, its only a matter of time before they have to start justifying there charges, and how are they going to do that!!!! THEY CAN'T.

 

Stand your ground and keep us all upto date with your progress.

 

All the best.

Speedy

[zsazsa]

keep on going mate. Ive not heard of anyone getting this far but you sound as if you have all bases covered.

IF Im available 20th July I may come down to lend support (london based anyway).

Chin up.

 

Hi Jonathan, Just reading your thread & wanted to add my good luck wishes to you as well - don't worry, I'm sure you'll be alright. According to the letter you received from the court it looks fairly like the CMC I attended in April in the Leeds Mercantile Court - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mercantile-court-cases-stays/85142-zsazsas-mum-lloyds-mercantile.html

 

If you have a quick read it'll give you an idea of what to expect, or what my experience has been so far anyway - don't worry though, united we stand & CAG are behind you etc!

 

Good Luck!

 

Zsazsa

[speedy016]

Hi Jonathon

 

Just wondered if you've any more news!!

 

Good luck for tomorrow and make sure you keep us all posted as to how you get on.

 

All the best

Speedy

[MilkTrayMan]

Hi laxdale!

 

Another link to more up-to-date quotes by your 'soon to be' favourite High Court Judge!...

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Customers win back bank charges

[Gazza01]

Hello laxdale!

Just want to wish you good luck.

The only advice I can give you and others in this kind of situation is don't panic, don't let anyone try to fluster/speed you up i.e. take as much time as you need and be clear what you want and why

It might even be an idea to fix up a crib sheet listing the high points.

[speaking from the position of being a jury forman at the old bailey a couple of years back, and another time helping a freind take on Tiny Computer back in the 1990's].

Good luck mate. I and everyone else will be rooting for you.

Gazza01

[Stewpot42]

hey, after seeing milk tray mans plight on getting everyone to support you, thought i would include some encouragement - especially as mine could end up going the same way. NW have underpaid my claim by 1200!

 

As people have already said on here, if your calculations are 100% correct then your bank doesnt have a leg to stand on and you WILL get your money.

 

Just think how much all this is costing the Nationwide! In my company our solicitors/barristers get paid £7500 per hour!!!! hence why most compnaies like to settle outside of court.

 

Stick to it - you've got the whole backing of everyone on here.

 

we're rootin for ya!

[DARLOPONTY1]

Hey JB,

 

I don't think you need to worry too much about London Mercantile, check the link BBC NEWS | Business | Judge slams bank payout delays .Nationwide would rather cough than risk the posibility of going before HH Judge Makie . Even if you are obliged to attend as long as you've prepared yourself you should be ok. Remember we are iin the right.

 

All the best and good luck.

[DISCO-DOLLY]

Hi jonathan would also like to wish u good luck. Im trying to reclaim the rest nationwide owe me. i have been to court,but unfortunatly for nationwide they were 45mins to late for the hearing. So got struck out. Now ive just gotta chase for the remainding amout im owed

[MilkTrayMan]

Hearing Day -7...+ counting!...lol...

[Dinkydoo]

Regardless of which court it is all Judges use a "reasonable man test". Any reasonable man would conclude that the banks are unreasonable and rule in your favour. It is a real bummer to be in such a position but like everyone else I believe you will win in the end. Be brave and stick it out.

[GaryH]

Regardless of which court it is all Judges use a "reasonable man test". Any reasonable man would conclude that the banks are unreasonable and rule in your favour. It is a real bummer to be in such a position but like everyone else I believe you will win in the end. Be brave and stick it out.

Not so, unfortunately.

 

Many judges consider that its US who are unreasonable. I was in Swindon County Court twice last week, in front of 2 different judges - the first one commented that the banks are being "attacked" (poor things!) and "if I had a pound for every template POC......" and "its seems to be the latest fashion to click on a website and sue a bank.....".

 

Second one was a wasted costs hearing (v Lloyds). I wasn't even allowed to make my case for them or show evidence - the judge said that he cannot possibly award costs in the small claims track unless the circumstances of unreasonable behaviour are exceptional. So it seems that sham litigation on a mass scale and utter disregard for orders and the CPR is not unreasonable enough, then.

 

That said, that is the minority - you can tell by the orders coming out of the various courts that most seem to be taking a tougher line with the banks, and rightly so.

[laxdale]

Hi,

I received a letter the other day from Ian Kinnear, Nationwide's locum solicitor that basically said that the amounts they were quoting were roughly right, although they had made a slight miscalculation and enclosed with the letter was a cheque for £2.97.

 

Having been through my statements for the umpteenth time I have tonight realised that I have made a huge error in my calculations. Basically, I got my figures from the summary of charges that you receive with each statement. This summary tells you how much they are going to charge you, and then further down it says that payment will be taken in either 21 or 28 days time. Unfortunately for me, these summaries, dont always include ad-hoc refunds of charges that were made at a later date. Some refunds show on the summaries, but crucially, not all!

 

Therefore, it would appear that my claim that I had been underpaid was wrong and I have pretty much received everything I should have.

 

I am now about to send a letter conceding defeat and saying they have refunded me in full. However, I just wondered if, with the benefit of the people who read this forums vast experiences in these matters wether it was worth trying to ring/email (bearing in mind that my case is due to be heard on Friday, aaaargh!!!) Mr Kinnear to say, OK I agree that I've made a mistake and the amount refunded is correct, BUT (and it's a big BUT), is there anyway they would compensate me for CLOSING MY ACCOUNT and for WASTED COSTS/TIME. I probably wont have time now to prepare the wasted costs documentation but thought it might be worth a try.

 

I really dont want to go to court now and admit I've got it wrong but I really need to get a letter sent to the court on Wednesday morning to avoid messing them about and to ensure they receive any communications before the hearing date on Friday.

 

Really sorry for messing people about on here, but I was convinced I was right. Should I just give up now or is it worth pursuing, even just for the £200 I read somewhere people were getting for having their accounts closed. Is that right, or have I just dreamt it, and are they likely to agree? Indeed, if I ring Mr Kinnear, am I likely to speak to him, OR, if I email, am I likely to get a reply before the court date? I doubt it very much but thought someone on here might be more knowledgable than me. If so, help with wordings of emails or what to say would be greatly appreciated.

 

Help please!!!

 

(very scared and very disappointed)

 

Thanks again folks,

 

Laxdale

[laxdale]

OK so no one replied but as time is running out and Mr Kinnear doesnt answer his phone I have sent the following email:-

 

Dear Mr Kinnear,

 

Further to your letter dated 11th July 07 in which you state that I have miscalculated the chargees due; upon further investigation, I realise now that the reason for the discrepancy is that the summary of charges due to be applied to your account that accompanies each statement and which states that charges were due to be applied in the forthcoming 21/28 days does not always include all refunds of charges that were subsequently applied. Having now double checked every last charge and refund I am happy to admit that the total refunds received amounts to the full amount. However, I am still prepared to attend the mercantile court hearing on Friday 20th July to show how I reached the final figure and how the summary statements did not provide a true reflection of charges incurred and subsequent refunds. In addition I am happy to attend, with backing from a well known consumer website, to argue the case for a wasted costs order as well as compensation for my account being closed down as a result of my actions to reclaim the charges levied against me.

 

However, I am prepared to write to the court to vacate the hearing prior to the 20th July on the condition that you are able to compensate me to the sum of £200 to cover both the compensation for my account being closed and for the wasted costs order. I am aware that this amount is considerably less than I can expect to receive in court having watched closely the outcomes of similar actions by individuals in a similar position. I therefore would appreciate a reply by the end of today (17th July 07) to confirm if this is acceptable. If not, I shall continue with my action in court on Friday armed with the full court bundle and examples of cases that would hopefully result in me receiving an amount in excess of £200.00 that I am requesting from your organisation today.

 

Please feel free to ring me directly on 07872 *** *** or reply to this email.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

*****************

 

Will let you know if I hear anything !!!

[laxdale]

UPDATE:

 

Mr Kinnear just rang to say that I hadn't included compensation for closing my account or wasted costs on my original claim and therefore I couldnt turn up in court on Friday and request this. He got me a bit flustered actually, and having hung up I realise that I didnt claim for compensation because I didnt know when I submitted my claim that they would close my account. I think I am going to throw in the towel on this particular claim and then perhaps approach the financial ombudsman about compensation for my account being closed. Is this the best option? I cant really see me turning up at court to admit I got my sums wrong, and then pursue 2 separate issues (compensation and wasted costs), as I'm not really prepared and quite frankly a little tired of all this now. Is this the best option?

 

Thanks,

Laxdale

[GaryH]

Yes, I think so.

 

The court will not be interested about the closure of your account and you certainly won't get compensation for it at the hearing. They've done nothing unlawful by closing your account so its not a court issue, and even if it was you'd need to start a new claim. You need to complain to the Ombudsman about account closure. If its clearly retaliatory I think you should be entitled to some compensation - possibly around £200.

 

The wasted costs is a possibility, although you've got to examine how strong a case you've got for them. You've not prepared a bundle or anything like that so I can't see how anything more than about 15 hours is realistic.

 

In my opinion you should pat yourself on the back and consider the claim won. Then complain to the ombudsman.

[GaryH]

Mr Kinnear just rang to say that I hadn't included........ wasted costs on my original claim and therefore I couldnt turn up in court on Friday and request this.

Just for the record, thats rubbish. Costs are not claimed when you file your claim, they are assessed upon judgement or settlement.