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    • reading the order is quite difficult for me. this is a letter (names and addresses taken out) that i sent in which is what i assumed i needed too.   court.pdf
    • Thanks for the message jk2054   I have just been drafting what I want to say and I think its best to focus purely on the supremacy of contract. The reason being that I dont want the judge to start focusing on other parts of my witness statement when surely just the supremacy of contract section alone should be enough to get this dismissed.    The crux of my defense revolves around the principle of Supremacy of Contract. When I purchased my flat in December 2016, the contract explicitly included ownership of parking spot 112, as delineated in the lease documentation provided in Exhibit 1. This documentation unequivocally establishes my right to use and occupy this parking space. Furthermore, the subsequent exhibits, particularly Exhibit 3, clearly depict the marked boundaries of parking spot 112, corroborating my ownership as stated in the lease agreement. Additionally, the official register of title, presented in Exhibit 4, reinforces this ownership claim. Moreover, I draw the court's attention to relevant legal precedents, such as Pace v Mr N and Link Parking v Ms P, which demonstrate that parking companies cannot override a tenant's right to park on designated property. These cases serve as persuasive authorities supporting my argument regarding the Supremacy of Contract in residential parking disputes. It is my contention that the absence of any contractual obligation to display a permit for parking spot 112 absolves me of any liability in this matter. The claimant's failure to acknowledge my ownership rights in their witness statement further underscores the weakness of their case.
    • I agree with you LFI, a totally wrong decision, I may be wrong but IMO who was driving is irrelevant .... So what if he declared himself as the driver within 28 days? .... I may be wrong but it's my understanding that that just makes him liable for the charge as driver. The fact is, the driver, declared or not, only made the error of entering the wrong vehicle registration number .... The parking was paid for. I think it more likely the judge dismissed because he didn't appeal to the PPC and tell them about the error and confirm he paid giving the chance of rectifying the situation before it got to court. But we can only know if Dave962 clarifies. Pollux, is that a fish like Cod? 😁
    • and more .. As thames water pushes to further rip off captive customers, not get fined for it, and allow more dividends .. for little more than 'aspirations' to do better More detail comes out of the literally and figuratively sh** companies apparently shunting money out of the regulated business to profit/bonus/dividend generating unregulated side companies   "Accounts filed at Companies House show : (Kennets) accounts, filed more than 12 months after the end of Kennet’s financial year, showed that the company made a £1.15m pre-tax profit for the year to 31 March 2023, up from £374,000 a year earlier. Revenues rose to £1.6m in 2023 – up from £1m in "Kennet Properties paid out a £14.5m dividend in the year to 31 March 2023" "Kennet ?takes on? land no longer needed by Britain’s biggest water company before developing it and selling it on, typically for housing or commercial premises. It also received income for the use of sewer networks by third parties for fibre-optic cabling."   Thames Water could raise bills to £627 a year to help fix leaks | Thames Water | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Embattled water supplier promises to invest up to £3bn more over the next five years     Thames Water-linked firm paid £14m in dividends despite concerns over group | Thames Water | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Kennet Properties sells off Thames Water land, whose owner, Kemble Water, has warned it would not be able to pay a £190m loan  
    • I think it will make more sense if you read that the Judge meant the 28 day sentence was on the PCN not the sign. He lost because in the Judge's opinion the registered keeper has the option to declare who was driving on the day. Dave didn't do that so he takes the blame for not making the declaration. A totally wrong decision which can be challenged at a price. There is no guarantee that another Judge will want to say that the original judgement was majorly wrong so may not change it. On the other hand another Judge may say the decision was an absolute load of pollux and reverse the decision and add punitive additions on to TPS for bringing such a hopeless case to Court.  That's why we call it Judge Lottery. To be fair, Judges tend to get it right more often than not. Doesn't make things any easier for Dave.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Big Motoring World have sold me a faulty car - What are my next steps?


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Hi all, 

Unfortunately, we too have encountered issues when buying a car from Big Motoring World

We saw the advert for the car on Saturday – it all looked great, good specs, FSH, MOT advisories weren't too much of a concern and so we went along on Saturday to take the car for a test drive. Test drive was all of five minutes, but it seemed to drive lovely. 

I asked the salesman about the advisory on the MOT on the break disc and he went away to check and said it had been repaired. We paid a £500 deposit, settled on a one-year extended warranty and arranged to collect the car the following day.  

Upon showing up the next day we were quickly taken to make the full payment and were told we would be able to get a hold of all the relevant service documents after when we go to sign the car out (admittedly this did raise an alarm in my head but I deemed it unlikely that such a big company were trying to pull one over on us).  

After paying we went to check the car out to find that not only did the car not actually have any paperwork backing up its service history, but it also didn't have a logbook or service book or anything you would expect to get when buying a car. We raised this with the team who said something along the lines of “oh that's strange but it's probably all online nowadays”. We checked the VIN on the manufacturer's website – nothing in relation to services. We rang the manufacturer who told us they only started doing this for models after 2020 (car is 2016) and so the dealer should really have the documents.  

The dealer managed to print a page of A4 saying when the car had been serviced and at what mileage (that's literally it, not where it was serviced or what was done on each service – although they did manage to figure out later which manufacturer garage did the last service – the garage couldn't confirm until Monday either), this is poor evidence at best not to mention it doesn't include any other work carried out on the car. According to the AA “a full service history means that a vehicle has been maintained in line with a manufacturer’s service schedule and comes with all the relevant documents as proof. It also means that any paperwork for repairs is on hand.” - they weren't. 

We went back and forth with the dealer who told us their prep-team may have some of the documents but they aren't open on the weekends so we would have to wait until Monday to get them – nothing as of yet (but it is still less than 24 hours later) - a manager even tried to question where I had seen the full service history claim to which I notified him it was on their website (on a now annoyingly removed ad) and was verbally confirmed to us by the salesman. 

At this point I asked (the now manager I was talking to) how on earth did the salesman know the MOT advisory on the brake disc had been fixed if they have no documentation to prove it. He went away and came back and said yes, our check of the car shows that the brake pads were fine when it came to us. At which point I notified him I wasn't asking about the pads I was asking about the discs which he then admitted hadn't been repaired at all. 

By the time we had been through all this me and my partner were exhausted and highly emotional and just decided to go – we had already paid for the car, and they weren't likely to let us unwind the sale until they had had a chance to get the documents through from the prep team. 

Unfortunately, that wasn't the end of it. On the way home the car drove fine until we got to our town in which you must constantly shift in and out of first gear when driving through. As we did this the car became stiffer and stiffer to shift into first, until about two minutes from home it finally refused to go into first or reverse at all. We had to ask my partners family to help us push it back to the house. 

We tried the car again later and at first it was fine again, but as we began to use the first gear to manoeuvre around the tight junctions on our estate the issue occurred again deeming the car essentially undrivable.  

We reviewed the warranty terms and conditions (which can be found on their app which you can access after you have paid for the warranty) which just seem to be a get out of jail free card for the Company. We have rung the support team this morning (i.e Monday morning - was originally told they were 24/7, they’re not) and they have told us that a booking team will be in touch within 48 hours to get the vehicle collected and looked at. I told them I absolutely do not trust their technicians as they're the ones who supposedly signed off on a 200-point check to say the car was fine in the first place and they have said I will need to take that up when the booking people call me.  

I want to take the car to my local mechanic who I trust will inspect it properly and not try and pull one over on me – we have already spoken to him for some advice (no inspection just a chat over the phone), he said it's a common problem with the car model but we should be aware that if we agree for the Company to carry out a repair on the car then we may lose any right to a full refund – he said the Company would push for this so to be careful. 

I can see the previous posts in this thread have received some great advice and so am now looking for some support as well. 

I am aware that we have a right to return the car as the fault occurred within 30 days and can demand a full refund. However, I am pretty sure we will need to get a diagnostics test done before we can go down this route. 

Do we hold off doing anything until the diagnostics report comes back. Also, do I have the right to choose which mechanic inspects my vehicle rather than letting them decide? I am guessing even if I do, they will want their own mechanic to confirm it (which I have seen hasn't always worked out well for others). 

I think we’re in a pretty good position regarding the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The car is unsatisfactory and not fit for purpose (although this is where I assume we will need the diagnostics report to prove it). 

Also I think we might be able utilise the fact that they told us the car had FSH and the brake disc had been repaired under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) perhaps under section 6 which claims that if the dealer omits material information (here they straight up lied about it) and it causes the average consumer to make a transaction decision they would not have otherwise taken (we did as we were told it had FSH and the brake disc had been repaired). As such they are breaking the law. 

I can see there have been some great responses on this thread above and could now really use some support in my next steps against the Company. As much as it would be convenient to just have it fixed, we have lost all faith in the car and the dealer and really just want our money back.  

Apologies for the long post but I didn't wish to omit any information that could help you help us. Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide. 

 

 

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Hi Winder, welcome to CAG.

As every case is different, you should create your own thread by clicking "create" in the top right. I'm sure people will be happy to help you.

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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How much did you pay for the car? How much did you pay for the warranty?

Were all the claims about it – full service history et cetera made in writing? Do you have written evidence of the claims about the brake discs?

Whatever the situation, you should send a letter immediately asserting your right to reject within 30 days and demanding a full refund. Even if you change your mind later on, at least you have asserted your right and you have reserved your position.

It seems that this company is a very difficult company to deal with. I'm sure that there are many satisfied customers but certainly when things go wrong, they don't seem to be prepared to step up to the mark. There are too many people making similar complaints

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Hi BankFodder,

Thanks so much for responding so quickly.

We paid £6k for the vehicle itself (£500 non refundable deposit the day prior to collection - although we did technically complete the sale so not sure if we might be able to get this refunded if we send the car back).

We then paid a £250 buyers fee.

And paid c.£500 for the 1 year extended warranty (the terms state that if a claim is not made and the policy is cancelled within 14 days then a full refund can be given - however we are nervous to cancel this if we don't have confirmation they will refund the car)

£150 VAT (I assume made up of the VAT on the buyers fee and the VAT on the warranty)

Also £35 road tax, a full tank of fuel (£45), and insurance for a year (c.£800) - appreciate we are unlikely to get any of this back and can cancel the insurance or transfer it to a different vehicle at a cost.

Unfortunately we don't have in writing the FSH history and brake disc claim, the advert which stated it had FSH was taken down when we paid our deposit. The claim that the brake disc was fixed was purely verbal between myself and the salesman. Although I read the following on the AA website:

"Dealers must also comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices:

  1. Giving false information – either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."

Hard to prove verbally I know but might be something?

 

I will get to work writing that letter. I have seen in the other thread you have helped on that the buyer had been advised by a professional not to drive the car - obviously without the diagnostic we don't yet have that so do we just go on the basis of our experience thus far, I.e car becomes harder and harder to shift into first to the point where it just doesn't at all? Thanks.

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Separate the car from the warranty. Warranty is pretty well useless anyway. They have an obligation to repair your car under the consumer rights act and all that has happened is that you have paid money for duplicate rights and in effect you have paid them for something that they are already obliged to do the of charge.

Invoke the cooling off period immediately. Write to them by email and by letter and inform them that you are invoking the cooling off period within 14 days and you are cancelling the warranty and you want a full refund.

Do that straightaway. Also send your letter of rejection and then come back here when they are done and tell us

And by the way, have you visited the Facebook complaints page about this company? You won't like what you see – but you had better do it

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Thanks BankFodder,

Warranty seemed like a safe-bet at the time - learnt that lesson the hard way.

Appreciate your quick responses.

So two letters - one saying I am rejecting the car and want a refund and a second saying I am cancelling the warranty and want a refund.

I will write the letters now and come back to you.

 

 

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Make sure you don't do anything which might be taken as invoking the warranty

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Here's an image which I just took from the Facebook complaints group.

It seems to be correspondence with a customer and the CEO of Big Motoring World – Peter Waddell
 

426341983_10159435784521423_3980971078321132518_n.jpg

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There's no way that's the response from the CEO, surely?

If it genuinely is, that's really embarrassing for them!

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Absolutely awful,

Just thinking through next steps and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.

If we cancel the warranty I can get a trusted mechanic to take a look at the car (currently earliest he can fit us in is Wednesday) he can diagnose the issue and I can then take this to Big Motoring World - but before then I must submit my letter of rejection based on the issue we have experienced despite not yet having the diagnostic - we can do this as the goods are unsatisfactory and this is our right.

The plan is cancel the warranty and submit a letter of rejection based on current experience of the issue, get mechanics diagnostic report and send a follow up letter stating the issue with the car. Then see what they come back to me with.

Alternatively I can send the letter to cancel the warranty now and follow up on Wednesday when the issue has been identified with my letter of rejection along with the diagnostic report.

I am a little concerned that us calling the aftersales team this morning to complain about the issue may be seen as invoking the warranty - we haven't got any further than raising the issue with them, nothings booked in yet so I am hoping realistically we haven't yet invoked it.

 

Hi BankFodder,

I have drafted the below rejection letter which I will send both through email and via signed for delivery. It is based on the template you helped someone else on the forum build.

Do you deem it to be suitable or is there anything I should perhaps change. I have been writing on behalf of my partner she has read the letter and is happy for me to send on her behalf.

 

 

Quote

 

Notice of Rejection - Vehicle Registration: ****

 

Dear Big Motoring World, 

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 11/02/2024, for which I paid £6299.00 (incl. Buyers Fee and Buyers Fee VAT). 

Within the initial 30 days of ownership (in fact within a few hours of ownership), a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle which has deemed the car undriveable. 

Initially, on the way home from the dealership, the car drove smoothly, however upon entering a built-up area, the repeated selection of first gear in start stop traffic and use of the gear when approaching junctions showed that there was clearly a fault as it became increasingly stiff to select. Eventually, about five minutes from home the car refused to enter first or reverse gear and we had to have our family come and help us push the car back home.  

We tried the car again later when there was less traffic and whilst it drove smoothly at first, as we continued to shift into first gear at junctions and when carrying out manoeuvres the selection became stiffer and stiffer to the point in which we were unable to select the gear – again we had to push the car home. 

Upon professional advice given over the phone by our local mechanic we have been advised not to drive the car due to the risk of ending up stranded at a busy junction. 

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation and considering that the defect materialised in the car within the first 30 days of ownership, I am hereby rejecting the car and requesting a refund in accordance with my statutory rights.   

I have arranged for the car to be fully inspected by a reputable local mechanic on Wednesday 14 February 2024 – the mechanic will collect the car and take it to their local garage to avert the risk of the vehicle failing at a busy junction. Following this, I will be back in touch to provide you with a diagnostics report for the issue with the vehicle. 

Please will you respond without any delay, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and the arrangements for facilitating the return of the vehicle. 

As required by the Consumer Rights Act, I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle.  

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law. 

You may reach myself at the following email address: 

Please ensure to also cc my partner into any correspondence, his address is:  

Yours sincerely, 

 

 

 

I appreciate you are not required to help me out with this but your guidance is extremely useful and really appreciated.

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i would not be using or inviting the use of email comms.

a papertrail from now on going forward imperative.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just finished drafting the warranty cancellation letter too:

 

 

Quote

 

Big Motoring World Customer Service,  

Snodland by Pass,  

Vantage Point,  

Snodland,  

Kent,  

ME6 5SL 

 

 

Notice of warranty cancellation – Vehicle registration: ******

12 February 2024 

Dear Big Motoring World, 

I am writing to formally cancel the warranty purchased in relation the above noted vehicle. Upon review of the terms and conditions it has become clear that the warranty does not provide me sufficient cover above that already provided by the Consumer Rights Act 2015. 

As no claim has been made against this warranty and the warranty was purchased within the last 14 days, I have the right to a full refund as per section 5(a) of the warranty's terms and conditions. 

“The service contract holder has the right to cancel their cover at any time within 14 days of the date of purchase and receive a full refund; this period is known as the “cooling off period””. 

We request that you make this refund immediately and cancel the warranty cover – returning the payment to the card that it was originally taken from and sending proof of the cancellation and refund to the following email addresses AND postal address. 

Yours sincerely, 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate this still invites email communication but we could receive a response much sooner this way, requesting they also send communications to a postal address will ensure we have physical copies too

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Send the warranty cancellation letter.

Stand by for a further response on the other one

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  • BankFodder changed the title to Big Motoring World have sold me a faulty car - What are my next steps?
2 hours ago, lolerz said:

There's no way that's the response from the CEO, surely?

If it genuinely is, that's really embarrassing for them!

A consummate professional! Incredible 🤦‍♂️

Edited by Grotesque
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Send the rejection letter

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Thank you,

I have sent the two letters by post - signed for delivery before 1pm tomorrow.

We have also sent them via email too - requesting that any correspondence returned to us via email is also sent via post

I expect them to push back but I will keep pushing myself. I will let you know what they come back with.

Thanks for your help.

Edited by winder263
adding comment regarding receiving correspondence by post as well as email
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