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    • @dx100uk being the stresser that I am, I’ve tried to get as many viewpoints as I can. I’m pretty dismayed with one I’ve received on Reddit, whereby someone thought I had a good case, but have now backtracked, and gave some Argos terms and conditions which have me worried.    They firstly wrote to my query…  OP, this is a straightforward cancellation under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations. That you picked it up from an Argos store is irrelevant - it was a distance contract because you didn't get to inspect the goods before making the purchase. As your parents cancelled the contract within 14 days of taking possession of the item, by bringing it back to the shop, they do not need to prove that there is anything wrong with it at all. The 14-day window for a refund technically started on the day you (tried) to return it. However, as it is on you to show that you cancelled it, I suggest you do so in writing to Argos. Please also complain to trading standards (you must use the Citizens Advice Bureau to do this now) about Argos's behaviour - we see this problem here on a regular basis.     he has then since came back with this…   In the Regulations, reg 5 provides that "distance contract" means: a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded; Argos's terms and conditions say that the contract is not concluded until the goods which you have already paid for have been collected (clause 2.3). Depending on how "collected" is interpreted, this may not be a distance contract after all, because the contract was not "concluded between a trader and a consumer ... without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer," and there was not "the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded". So Argos's position would be that you could have arrived at the front counter, had the iPhone brought to you, inspected it, and decided not to take it. That would have meant that the order was not "collected", so the contract was not concluded - there was no contract. At the point you decide to accept the iPhone, the item is "collected" and the contract is concluded - but as this was on their premises, it cannot be distance selling within the meaning of the Regulations. I must admit, it's a new one - I can't find mention of them adopting this position successfully anywhere online but I'm afraid it is fairly legally compelling. To counter this, you would need to try and show that the term around when the contract is concluded is a sham or unenforceable term, or more likely unfair, but even with the considerable leeway afforded to consumers in consumer contracts, you may struggle to defeat privity of contract. I think go back to trading standards and see where you can get.  
    • not a chance of police involvement after the event the police are not interested in small fry, just the big organised gangs that shoplift to fund drugs. dx
    • or just click any named forum and we'll move it here for you.   dx  
    • oh yea ta! one last question what date was the CCJ/Default judgement? dx
    • maybe a dodgy letter but you can avoid those too. police are VERY VERY unlikely so don't stress about that.
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Help with managing £90k+ debt


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Hi all,

I'm 24 years old and in a mess. I have set up a DMP with PayPlan on £800 per month.

Here are my personal debts - all in a DMP (which are still with the banks but will default anytime):

Barclaycard £1.3k

M&S £1.6k

Vanquis £970

NatWest card 1: £5.5k

NatWest card 2: £3.2k

NatWest loan £13.6k

NatWest OD £2079

New Day (Pulse, Fluid, Aqua) £3.5k, £2.9k, £3.3k

LTD debts with PG

Liberis £12.3k (defaulted with DCA)

Funding Circle £9k (nearly defaulted)

Capital on Tap (now Lowell) £9k

NatWest loan £5.8k (defaulted) - in DMP

Marketing company £19k 

No clue where to start. Ideally I want to pay the lot off as the LTD is still viable, just ruined by loan stacking. I have just been very bad with money since I turned 18 and some of these stacked up as a teenager/early 20s.

I heard a lot of DCAs offer discounts so is this the way to go? As there are a lot of creditors, it's going to be tough keeping in touch with them.

Many thanks

 

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90,000 at 24 years old is pretty spectacular debts.

I expect that my site team colleague @dx100uk will be along fairly soon.

In the meantime Do you own a house or any assets?

My first instinct is that if you have no assets then you should go bankrupt. There's no point in wasting the rest of your very useful life repaying companies who clearly must have been lending irresponsibly.
However, there is a quid pro quo on this which is that you learn your lesson and you don't go there again.

Let's see what my site team colleague says but I expect that he will agree that your DMP is simply calculated to keep the debts live for an awful long time and to get you paying through the nose for maybe the rest of your your life and never able to get rid of the burden and to start afresh.

This kind of debt at this kind of age is only going to corrupt your life – your family prospects – everything.

 

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I am still living at home and pay housekeeping.

I sold my car already to pay some of the debt off and have no other assets really.

In the past year I paid around £30k off so the debt level was already much higher. When LTD revenue peaks I throw as much as I can at business related debts but Q1/Q2 is slow.

The marketing debt is what tipped me over the edge, I'm just wondering if I can negotiate a lower settlement amount with them then that's a start.

Another hope is that DCAs discount the debts heavily and I pay these on plans.

NatWest/NewDay have been chucking loans at me since I was 18.

Business loans were my fault for signing PGs - big regret of mine.

I'd be happy paying £20k off this year but it's been a slow start to the year.

And yes, I'll never borrow a single penny again - I was just immature. I quickly realised how dangerous borrowing is.

Edited by JHall2023
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Start researching bankruptcy on the internet. It is the only sensible option for you.

Stop paying DCAs or anybody else. They are simply out to make profit out of you and to prolong the life of the debts.

Start researching bankruptcy. I am sure my site team colleague will be a long later or tomorrow

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I've researched already over the past few months - it's not for me. I need to continue LTD co for income and keep building the business.

The debts have sucked the life out of me and the company but the business model itself is viable. 

DCAs buy for as little as 10p in the £1 in most cases, why not just settle with them some time after default? I'd never be harassed again and no legal action required.

Marketing debt isn't even enforceable if I negotiate settlement fairly.

Surely there is a plan B...

Looking forward to hearing from the team tomorrow

Many thanks

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pers debts or PG debts can only ever end in you getting a CCJ and if you lose it shows for 6yrs...then goes from your files.. regardless to being paid  or not paid or whatever, makes no odds it falls off. so lots of them wont hurt you, 1 is as bad a 10.

you've no assets like a residential property so they cant get charging orders.

and they cant get blood out of a stone.

same with default notices, the quicker you get every debt issued with a default notice the quicker it vanishes from your file and no longer harms you.

i would get every debt default by the original creditor issuing a default notice , then deal with each debt once thats happens.

i would get any income you get paid into a bank account that has no links with any of the lending 'groups' you are with.

that way you can totally control who gets what and when by transferring money out by bacs.

pers i would not go BK, esp if you wish to keep your business afloat no need.

drop that stupid DMP now and do one yourself, it's very very easy with a bit of paperwork organisation. a filr for each debt is a must

i scan everything then shred it. 

as for DCA's you are paying, if you've had a default notice from the original creditor and the debts been sold on via a notice of assignment - like your COT debt and lowells - stop paying them, follow the advice for that debt on each one.

seriously no-one can blood out of a stone and atleast you have a business that earning. 

dx

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the advice.
 

Most importantly I set up a new bank account with an unrelated banking group last summer when things were taking a dive.

Do you suggest I ignore everyone for now but keep any letters that come through?

I don’t even know if any except COT have gone to DCAs yet.

Requesting a SAR from COT - don’t see how it benefits me? Can’t I just ignore Lowell altogether? They haven’t even got the debt amount correct like I said the other day

 

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As a Site Team member who should be commenting more, and someone who has been in precisely your situation, I can only echo DX100's sentiments.

Paying those debts are a hiding to nothing, and will make zero difference to your credit, and will only serve to put money in the pocket of the DMP.

Let them all default, pay nothing and in 6 years you will be clean, remember paying them even a penny resets the statute barred clock so just ignore their mountain of letters and threat' o grams , phonecalls etc.

Always open your mail though just in case it's a letter of claim, if that happens (and it might never) come here and we can help you bat them off. As for Lowell I have a lot of experience of them, I would say watchful waiting, counts for a lot, always open their letters,  look for anything that's been transferred to Overdales Solicitors, if they send a letter of Claim they are easy to kick to the kerb, as they are very speculative, often relying on people not responding in order to secure a judgement.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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lowell have purchased the cot debt. you have a notice of assignment.

please only comment on that debt on its thread that already exists.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I'd be tempted to pay any discounted offers that come due to ignoring... I've got another bank account open for cheap settlements.

Potentially I could settle most of this for £15-25k? It's easier and based on my income increasing it'll be peanuts.

I can see my income improving over the next year so any discounts I'd be welcome to. If I can afford it at some point why not?

On a side note, I'd like a mortgage before 30, I suspect I'd need a VERY high deposit and pay higher interest (if anyone even considers me in the first place with all these defaults).

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I'm following this thread with interest as I'm in a similar position. However I'm literally DOUBLE your age, mate! Nearly 50!

This isn't my first rodeo with debt, unfortunately. I just wanted to wish you all the best JHall2023 going forward and to add to what a lot of other posters have said here - 24yrs old is no age to be saddled with a humungus 90k debt - it will change the whole course of your life. You have everything in front of you.

Can you not "phoenix" the LTD company, signing the new one over to a sibling or partner, making them sole director? Then you can go personally BK.

6 years may seem like a long time at 24, but believe me it goes in a flash and you'll still be under 30 to get a second chance, with lessons learned.

The only thing I'd add is, personally I would pay any small suppliers or individuals who will lose out with the winding up of existing LTD.

The big banks and loan companies will just write it down as tax-deductable loss on a spreadsheet somewhere. Give a ****!!! 

Best wishes.

 

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@Xerzes thanks for the heads up. I would never go BK, it would ruin everything and my reputation - I prefer dx advice above which is more of a strategy.

I'd rather just let these defaults fall off and move on. I'm sure I had a default when I was 18 which doesn't even show anymore, it can't be that bad (I never used to check my file back then).

Unfortunately no one would become director (family etc) they're not savvy enough to understand how business works or the potential risks involved - they've only ever worked in jobs.

Cheers

 

 

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35 minutes ago, JHall2023 said:

I'd be tempted to pay any discounted offers that come due to ignoring... I've got another bank account open for cheap settlements.

Potentially I could settle most of this for £15-25k? It's easier and based on my income increasing it'll be peanuts.

I can see my income improving over the next year so any discounts I'd be welcome to. If I can afford it at some point why not?

On a side note, I'd like a mortgage before 30, I suspect I'd need a VERY high deposit and pay higher interest (if anyone even considers me in the first place with all these defaults).

On the side note, by the time you are 30 all of this would have disappeared whether you pay or not, which is why you would be bonkers to even consider paying a penny. 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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I understand. What's the likelihood of a CCJ? Not going to end up with 10 CCJs or (how ever many there are) am I? That would be a lot of stress and faffing about responding to letters.

Can't be bothered doing anything in writing I just want to move on. I'll keep the letters sorted in a folder and that's it.

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It's a waiting game, remember they have 6 years, I had more debts with more creditors , at more value than you, and I ended up with 4, but that's before I found this place, then I wouldn't have any because they are easy to bat away mostly, with very little writing. I could explain why this is, but just take my word for it.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Ok sounds good. Grateful for this forum. 

I'm expecting a lot of letters but hopefully they become less frequent if I ignore - right?

I'm just focusing on my future and increasing income, paying into a safe bank account. Will store away each letter as mentioned

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None of this is worth worrying about, the letters will come in fits and starts, the only one you need to worry about is a letter of claim, that may or may not come at some point

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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The DCA's , the wording, everything is designed to make it sound like this is the most important thing in the world.  In reality all that the likes of Lowell do is purchase thousands of debts for 10p in the £, and their mission is to use any means to sound like they are actually a court or a bailiff to scare you into paying. In reality nothing could be further from the truth.

The reason why the debt is so cheap is because they are mostly fatally flawed and won't stand up to any scrutiny. That's why the Original Creditors don't take you to court and crush you, it's better for them to take a massive loss and sell to the likes of Lowell,

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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18 hours ago, London1971 said:

 In reality all that the likes of Lowell do is purchase thousands of debts for 10p in the £,

That's why the Original Creditors don't take you to court and crush you

And thats after they have claimed tax relief against the loss, bad debt, so they are winner winner chicken dinner.:-D

 

 

.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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49 minutes ago, JHall2023 said:

@Xerzes thanks for the heads up. I would never go BK, it would ruin everything and my reputation - I prefer dx advice above which is more of a strategy.

I'd rather just let these defaults fall off and move on. I'm sure I had a default when I was 18 which doesn't even show anymore, it can't be that bad (I never used to check my file back then).

Unfortunately no one would become director (family etc) they're not savvy enough to understand how business works or the potential risks involved - they've only ever worked in jobs.

Cheers

 

 

Yep, totally understood. - ;) 

 

 

.

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I've still got my own thread which no-one has answered. I don't want to sound like a neg-head, but I don't think it's as simple as some posters here would wish.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, in which case I'd appreciate a response to my own thread.

Anyway, all the best fella. At 24 the world is yours. Don't worry about debt, set yourself free.

 

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just remember the golden rules here.

stop paying , get the original creditors to issue a default notice and register the default on your credit file ASAP.

that way on the DN's 6th B'day, the whole account VANISHES and no-one bar you and the debt owner knows about it's existence, so mortgages are not off the cards once things begin to fall off. again does mean the debt is not owed, 

if you go for a mortgage never ever ever give brokers or IFA's access to your view of your credit file.

let them look themselves and they see nothing bad.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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