Bill Meek v Abbey

[Bill Meek]

Hi all. Using this invaluable site I have plucked up the courage to proceed against the Abbey for nearly £3000 on behalf of my wife. First of all a big thank you to all involved. I am at the stage where I have just recently sent them the 'Letter Before Action'.

 

Two questions (sorry to be dim): firstly, when I give the Abbey 14 days to respond does this mean '14 days' or '14 working days'?

 

Secondly, we have been married less than a year and my wife is still in that awkward time where she answers to two different surnames for different purposes. The Abbey debts were accrued under her former (unmarried) name, so this is the name she (we) have been corresponding with the Abbey in. Will it matter if we get to court and it transpires that she has been communicating with the Abbey in a name which is not strictly her current legal name?

 

very many thanks in advance

[rbrears]

14 days not working days and no it wont matter about the names as long as she uses her married name in any proceedings - You can enter it on the claim form as Mrs..... Smith (Nee [insert maiden name here]) and that will be fine. Best of luck

[Bill Meek]

Many thanks for the advice! With the end of my second 14 days looming it now looks like I will have to proceed with court action against the Abbey; how do I decide whether to use 'Moneyclaim' or not? Is either method equally likely to succeed? Should I expect any problems using Moneyclaim which I would not encounter taking the other route?

 

as always, many many thanks

[livelylad]

Many thanks for the advice! With the end of my second 14 days looming it now looks like I will have to proceed with court action against the Abbey; how do I decide whether to use 'Moneyclaim' or not? Is either method equally likely to succeed? Should I expect any problems using Moneyclaim which I would not encounter taking the other route?

 

as always, many many thanks

 

Both systems will have the same outcome. MCOL is easier because you dont have to go to the court, however the space for your POC is smaller this can lead to the solicitors asking you to provide more information. The route we now recommend is the N1.

[Bill Meek]

Thanks very much guys! Okay, time's up for Abbey and I'm nervously filling in the N1 as you advise. I need to understand exactly what I am asking for, so again have questions, mostly regarding interest:

 

What I'm requesting is a refund of a big pile of excessive charges totalling nearly 3k over six years. I have no idea whether or how much interest I actually paid as a consequence of the charges, especially as the account was settled and closed in Feb 2006. I have completed the Excel spreadsheet detailing the charges, and calculated the eight percent interest based on 'days since offence'. I have corresponded with the Abbey in exactly the way and to the timescale you suggest on your site, and they haven't responded at all, except right at the start when they sent me my back statements.

 

So: does it make a difference that I don't know how much interest I actually paid on these charges? Do I just claim the eight percent anyway? As the account hasn't been accruing interest since last February, do the 'days since offence' figures still apply when I calculate the interest? And what is the 0.00022 thing? (I don't understand this at all).

 

As you can see I am pretty confused about the interest; I don't really know what I'm asking for and any clarity would be really appreciated.

 

Also lastly, is it ok for me to name Abbey as the defendant at their Triton Square address, when all my previous correspondence to them has been to their Prescot St, E1 address?

 

with many, many thanks as always, you guys are fantastic.

[Mad Nick]

Bill, What interest rate is a popular question but the answer isn't black and white. For starters, have a read of this thread :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html

 

and post #4 on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/45835-jade-simone-abbey.html?highlight=statutory+contractual+downside#post459722

 

By the way 0.00022 is just 8%/365 (ie daily rate of interest). Regards Mad Nick

FWIW, I think your circumstances point to claiming 16.9% contractual interest (which is calculated compound) from the date of each charge to now on the grounds of mutuality and reciprocity. But please, please read those threads and others - because whatever you do, you need to understand it so that you could defend in negotiation with Abbey or in Court with a Judge.

[Bill Meek]

Thanks Nick, those threads make very interesting reading. I'm beginning to think that my case is a little unusual, and I'm wondering if anyone else is in the same boat... The thing is, I'm doing this on behalf of my wife, for an account which was settled and closed nearly a year ago. I wasn't involved in her finances at the time, so I have no memory of what went on, no knowledge of what interest rate my wife was being charged, and in fact no actual evidence that she was charged any interest at all. The back statements Abbey sent are from microfiche (I think..), and pretty simplistic so don't help with this.

 

As you say I need to understand what I'm claiming and would hate to be caught out; firstly, would I be right in saying that she is due the eight percent interest *whatever* because of what it says in the County Courts Act? If so, does the fact that the account was closed nearly a year ago affect the 'days since offence' calculation on the Excel spreadsheet?

 

I'm really not sure I could claim the 'contractual interest' as I have too much information missing to do it with any confidence; in the worst case scenario would I just have to claim the charges back without the interest?

 

thanks again and sorry to be a dummy, I'll get there in the end.

[Mad Nick]

Bill, if you're unsure, keep it simple : just claim the charges and calculate 8% interest for each charge from its date to now (charge x no. days x 8%/365). Ignore the fact that the account was closed. File the N1 attaching the schedule of charges & interest. Abbey will lodge a defence, push it to a Court date, then negotiate a settlement with you beforehand. They might argue the interest figure is too high because the account was closed in Feb 06. Up to you to accept a lesser figure or not. Then again, they might not realise. Regards, Mad Nick

[Bill Meek]

I'll do that, many thanks

[Glenn UK]

FWIW

 

The interest you charge them ie either Sec 69 (8%) or contractual interest is payable until they settle the claim.

 

Sec 69 only appears on your claim when you file at court, so once you submit your claim to court then they would need to pay you the 8%.

 

Advantage of contractual interest, apart from the rate and method of applying it, is that it is part of your claim from the start i.e. the prelim.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[Bill Meek]

Thanks Nick and Glenn, ok I'm ready! Just one (extremely irritating) thing remains; on the schedule of charges I presented the Abbey with at the Prelim and LBA stages I overcalculated the total by £30 out of a total of £2923 (I'm really cross with myself for letting this through; Excel did the sums so who knows what went wrong....anyway): *please* tell me I don't have to start the correspondence process with them all over again*?*!* (the amount is definitely right now, suffice it to say..)

 

Can I just proceed with the N1 simply asking for £2923 instead of £2953 on the basis that they have not responded to *any* of my correspondence, acknowledged my grievance, questioned the amount or admitted liability in the meantime?

 

sorry guys, so gutted!

[rbrears]

Yes - dont worry about it - just submit the claim for the correct amount and GL

[Bill Meek]

ooh that's a relief!! Thanks to all as always.

[Bill Meek]

Just about to take N1 to Court in person, when a letter arrives from Abbey:

 

Dear XXX

Thank you for contacing us and I am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you have felt you must complain.

 

One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I have enclosed our Complaints leaflet, which explains our proceedure for doing this. High quaility customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we will do everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly, but we want to do a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not contacted you before then we will write to you in four weeks to let you know what is happening.

 

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with

Yours sincerely

Andrew Nanson

Business Manager

I have seen this standard letter before on the Bowkett v Abbey thread. I intend to follow my timetable, not theirs, as repeatedly advised. Do I need to reply to Andrew Nanson though? (If so, what do I say?) or can I ignore the letter altogether?

Just to check, I take to court 3 x N1, 3 x schedule of charges inc 8% interest. Anything else? Would they also want copies of correspondence with the Abbey to date?

[Bill Meek]

Hi guys. Have filed a court claim against the Abbey, they have acknowledged and stated that they will defend the claim. Have received a slightly unnerving letter from them today though:

 

Dear XX

[Paraphrasing]..We note you are taking us to court...

 

We are in the process of revising this claim and preparing our response. A defence will be filed in due course. In the meantime, we note you have claimed £xxxx in respect of charges that you say have been made on your Abbey account. It would be helpful at this stage if you could provide email and telephone contact details to us.

 

We look forward etc etc.

 

What the heck is happening? Why do they want contact details? Do I respond??!

 

Thanks as always!

[charleyfarley]

Hi Bill,

 

Sounds like you are two weeks ahead of me, so I'm reading your thread with interest. re the letter from Abbey, I've seen it almost word for word on other threads, so it sounds like a standard reply. Another member said he would only give them e-mail as he didn't want them phoning up, but the final pre-court steps negotiations seem to take place by phone

[Bill Meek]

Thanks Charleyfarley (and good luck, by the way!). The thing is though, I'm doing this for my wife, so whose details would I give? Am I allowed to talk for her as though we were one and the same?

[bish]

Hi bill,

 

You can speak for your wife, she just needs to give her permission, be it in writing or verbaly over the telephone. You would be her reprasentative in court and as long as she signs and understands anything relating to the case, there is no problem. On the N1 claim form the statement of truth at the end gives you the oppertunity to be the claiments representative. HTH.

 

Regards bish.

[Bill Meek]

Okay, things are getting somewhat confusing here, a bit of reassurance would be *really* appreciated. Abbey have acknowledged that we're taking them to court and pledged to defend the claim. In the meantime we have received two 'form letters' from Abbey in two days, from two different Abbey addresses:

 

One was the common form letter repeated on here many times: we feel the charges are not unlawful, but we will be sending you a GOGW of £40, and if we do not hear from you in x weeks we will consider this matter closed.

 

(FORTY QUID?!!!! Our claim is for £3600!!!)

 

In the other, which I reported yesterday, they (scarily) acknowledged the court claim against them and asked my wife to supply mobile and email addresses so they could contact her.

 

Okay [*deep sigh*]... I intend to do the following: *please* can someone reassure me that I'm doing the right thing...

 

1) I intend to wait for the forty quid to arrive, reply to the first Abbey letter accepting the money whilst telling them I still intend to pursue them for the rest. I will then tell the court I have received forty pounds, and as a consequence ask them revise the amount of my claim downwards.

 

2) My wife will respond to the second letter telling Abbey that I (her husband) will be representing her, and giving them my *email only*, so I can keep everything strictly in writing.

 

3) Lastly, I intend to tell the court that I will be representing my wife, with her permission, as I have already failed to do what Bish said (sorry Bish..) and use the N1 to do this. From that point onwards I will correspond directly with Abbey as myself, despite the claim being in my wife's name.

 

Please could someone tell me these are the right things to do as I'm getting really uncomfortable and nervous with this now.

 

Many, many thanks as always,

Bill

[Mad Nick]

Bill, sounds good to me although I wouldn't bother to wait for the £40 to appear and I would see their request for E-mail and phone details as a very good sign - they'll need those to settle out of court with you. I had the same. And when you reply, don't forget to ask again for them to disclose the breakdown of their costs which they incurred for your breaches. They'll keep on ignoring (or as they now seem to be doing say "we are not obliged to give that to you") - it'll tighten the noose a bit further ! Regards, Mad Nick

[bish]

Hi Bill,

 

Agree with Nick, looks ok to me. If they do ring your wife she will just say they need to deal with you regarding the claim and hand the phone over to you or ring back when you are available. In my opinion it is better to do it via email or mail as you have a record of all that is said and time to think before you reply. You are doing fine, and well on top of things. Best wishes.

 

Regards bish.

[bish]

Bill regarding informing the court, just say you have accepted the GOGW as partial settlement. No need to amend the claim as that costs money. You only have to inform the court if you receive any money from the defendant. As you say wait until you get the money first. My first contact from the abbey in the early days was a phone call offering £50 which was upped to £55 when I informed him that the claim was for over £8k. I declined the offer at that time, a further GOGW of £1080 was received along with 50% & 75% offers. Still waiting for the 100% offer. Best wishes.

 

Regards bish.

[Bill Meek]

Tremendous responses as always, thanks you. I'll keep you informed how things go!

Bill

[Bill Meek]

Hi all. Just received the same letter as Tinkabella this morning, offering half the outstanding amount plus court costs (for us, nearly £2K) so we are at exactly the same stage. I'll be watching Tink's thread with interest (pardon the pun)!!

 

Enclosed with our letter is Abbey's defence, parts of which bear repeating (ie they're the bits that make me nervous):

 

At court the defendant will refer to the following extracts [of the Terms and Conditions]:

1. "You can apply for an overdraft on your account. If we give you an overdraft we will tell you your limit and the interest rates applicable"

2."An unauthorised overdraft occurs if without our agreement you overdraw your account or exceed the limit of an overdraft which we have agreed"

3."If you have an unauthorised overdraft you will be charged fees as set out in our Tariff of Charges or specified to you and these may include fees for transactions we are unable to process due to lack of available funds in your account".

Therefore by virtue of the Conditions referred to above such overdrawing was unauthorised and in breach of contract and the claimant became liable to pay fees to the defendant in accordance with its Tariff of Charges.

The defendant denies that the amount of £X,XXX or any other amount was unlawfully debited and repayment is denied. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to claim interest in the sum claimed or at all.

The claimants contention that the fees are unenforceable or "penalty charges" is denied. The fees reflect, and are proportionate to, the Defendant's administrative expenses incurred due to the claimant's breach of contract and are a genuine pre-estimate of the damage suffered by the defendant.

Further or in the alternative, even if the said fees are not proportionate to the Defendant's administrative expenses incurred (which is denied), the Claimant remains liable to pay such fees as may be found to be proportionate and the Claimant is not entitled to claim payment of the full amount of each charge made to the account.

 

So; do we accept the GOGW and inform the court we have done so, or just turn it down completely? Do we even need to respond to Abbey at all?

 

AQ is now here and ready to fill in, so more developments soon.

 

a million thanks as always

Bill

[Bill Meek]

Hi all. I seem to be at exactly the same stage as Tinkerbella22, Nos4r2, adw and diomedes. Am about to send reply to Abbey roughly as per diomedes posting (#11 on Nos4r2 thread, for which thanks!!). Good luck to all you guys, as always.

 

While I'm here just a quickie question: looking a little way ahead, is the court going to require me to produce a copy of the original contract or Terms and Conditions for the account? This could be a problem as the account has been closed a while, and we don't have a copy of these any more...

 

thanks,

Bill