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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Evri lost 2 parcels approx. £600 (part 2)


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Hello,

Just as a recap in Feb 2023 Evri lost 2 of my parcels worth about £600 total (£300 per). Below is the (successful claim) previous thread.

I decided to claim for one parcel at a time, and after a very lengthy process (mostly due to Evri not showing up to the mediation call, meaning it got dragged out to court phase), I eventually got my money for the first parcel (Thanks to the amazing help here from people like Bankfodder).

During the final emails, I did tell Evri I also have a claim for Parcel 2 but they were adamant on only dealing with Parcel 1.

By the end of the thread I was instructed to make a new thread here for my Parcel 2 claim process, since it will be easier for the helpers here to start from fresh, as well as help new people here get a cleaner sense of the process. The best part is I already have the experience

Apologies for the 1-2 month delay in this, but been very hectic so only just getting around to making this thread.

A I have a Parcel 2 draft letter of claim to send to Evri by email and letter, let me know if I should share here for you guys to review?

Is it also worth changing the letter of claim a bit to reflect the fact that I've already won a claim with them with an identical case (maybe to reduce the time wasting - but I doubt they care)?

 

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Yes please. Please put up your Draft letter of claim here..

Important to treat this thread as completely independent for the benefit of others who come here.

Yes you may as well refer to the previous claim but I suggest that this time on the basis that they didn't appear for mediation last time and so they wasted your time and the time of the mediators, you point out but this time you will be going to trial and you will not consent to mediation.

As long as you are happy for that.

If you skip the mediation step it will be quicker for you and also you have got an excellent reason for declining mediation and going straight to trial

By the way, did your previous claim go to trial? Did they appear? Was there a judgement? Or was it all by default

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Hello BankFodder, thanks for the help last time too.

No, shortly before the Hearing Fees were due, Evri contacted me to settle. The initial offer was less than expected. I turned it down and they ended up improving their offer to the full sum from the initial claim (price of parcels + £35 court fees).

After the payment was confirmed received I then sent an email + letter to the court and they eventually sent a letter back and closed the case.

Attached is the draft letter of claim, I added a little extra paragraph at the end

letter of claim draft (parcel 2).pdf

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Standby for a reply later on.

They don't care whether you take your business elsewhere. You are just another troublesome customer and you cast them more money than you are worth to them.

We will take that out just for the starters unless you really feel strongly about saying it

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Oh, main reason I mentioned "I stopped using them" was so it doesn't look like i'm doing anything dodgy (like i intentionally lost the parcels) or willingly continuing shipping with them despite this experience

it may sound ridiculous but i'd rather not give them any ideas

I used them twice, it failed twice and as soon as it happened I was done with evri (both parcels sent in same week before i realised the problem)

Edited by jmxo
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I don't see why it should be you who feels that you may be under suspicion of doing something dodgy.

It is EVRi which is routinely doing something dodgy by refusing to reimburse people in full on this they have purchased the unlawful insurance which is prohibited by section 57 and also section 72 of the Consumer rights act.

How about something like this:
 

Quote

Address:

Hugo Martin
Director of Legal and Company Secretary
EVRi Parcelnet Ltd trading as Evri
CAPITOL HOUSE,
1, CAPITOL CLOSE
LEEDS
LS27 0WH


Dear Hugo Martin

Letter of Claim


On 8/2/2023 I used your service to send a parcel (reference number PXXXXXXXX)
The parcel has not arrived at its intended destination and I am assuming that it
has been stolen.
Your service was purchased via a third party (eBay Packlink) but I am pursuing yourselves as I am
entitled to do under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties Act 1999).
Value of sold item = £283.35
Postage cost = £4.48
Packlink compensation = £4.48 + £25 (standard compensation)
Total loss to me (amount of claim) = £258.35 + any applicable Interest

You have so far failed to reimburse me and I am therefore informing you that I'm proposing to
begin a county court claim against you within 14 days and without any further notice unless you
reimburse me in full before that date.

I should point out to you that this will not be the first time that I have had to sue you in the County Court.
I have previously claimed against you on exactly the same issue – XXX date – claim number XXX.


You failed to make themselves available for the planned mediation and so the matter was listed for trial but sensibly, you settled my entire claim before the matter went before a judge.


I'm warning you now that in view of your waste of my time and the resources of the court by failing to make yourself available for the planned mediation in that previous case, that I will decline mediation this time and I will go directly to court.

Yours sincerely

I have suggested that you address it specifically to Hugo Martin who is the head legal con show up there and knows all about it and of course he also is fully aware that you do have third-party rights even though he will probably instruct The Children, George Wood, Judy Cobbett and Libby to defend the case in order to make things as difficult for you as possible in order to discourage others and then to settle at the last minute.

This seems to be the way they operate. It's a huge waste of a public-taxpayer-funded County Court resource – but hey, what do they care?

It wouldn't at all surprised me if when they settled, they then set the payment off against tax so the taxpayer pays part of the reimbursement cost is put down as a business expense. I wonder if it has any similarities to the tax accounting anomalies that we have heard of recently in the Horizon scandal

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  • 4 weeks later...

and?

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Hey guys,

Been awfully busy at work so only just managed to send off the LoC letter + emial earlier this week. I took your advice and addressed the letter specifically to Hugo Martin.

Interestingly, almost all the Evri emails bounced. Did they do this to stop people emailing their staff members directly, since my previous parcel claim didn't have this much bounces if I recall correctly?

Only emails i got back for some "Evri Executive Office" support who's being about as unhelpful as expected. They are asking for evri and packlink tracking numbers, and then after I responded they said they can't find them in the system. Duh, it happened last year and you guys probably recycle your tracking data periodically                                                         

I'll just wait for the 14 day mark and go onto the next step of the process

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The inference to be drawn from reports on Facebook is that every time somebody gets hold of a telephone number or an email address, EVRi but to change it in order presumably to block the barrage of complaints which get through.
EVRi are not customer-facing in that they don't like to face their customers.

I see that they responded back to you and asked you for tracking numbers. Are you telling us that you sent a letter of complaint to them and didn't give them any tracking numbers?

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Posted (edited)

No, im saying the customer support person who was cc'd/delegated to answer the LoC email was the only person to respond and they are asking basic questions like what was the tracking numbers for your parcel that was lost.

Aka they have no idea whats going on and just doing their usual useless process of trying to find my parcel (1 year later)

The others like hugo martin and the ceo etc. I got bounced

Edited by jmxo
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Hi BankFodder,

Getting ready to fire off the mcol in a couple days as soon as 14 days are over

I'm attaching a redacted version of my particulars of claim draft for you to look over. It's mostly based off what I did with the previous parcel which was good to you (link below)

except this time I had to fill out a bit extra information for the interest since its been a year, whereas last time I just claimed interest from when the claim started. is that part ok?

Let me know if this is all good to fire off or if you would change anything. Thanks for the help again

money claim online redacted particular of claim.pdf

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It looks okay but can you remind me whether you took out the so-called insurance that they sell?

Also, please can you have a look at this post which I made earlier on this evening calling into question people's commitment to their claims in relation to the amount of work we put in to helping them as volunteers.
I appreciate that people who come here for help have jobs  to do as well – but they don't seem to realise that so do we. We have our families and jobs et cetera.

 

Please also have a look at this thread. Although there are questions about the no-compensation list, there are also issues about third-party rights. This is a case where the OP has actually made the claim and of course EVRi have made their predictable usual unimaginative defence.
We are now having them produce a witness statement as they have a trial  coming up soon. You should pay attention to this thread that have a look at what they have produced as a witness statement and the ammendmentsI have suggested because this may inform your particulars of claim and a bit more before you click it.

See what you think and click up a final version of your particulars of claim.

 



Do you think now that you will manage to give this claim your continuous attention?

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i got the Extra 90p "signed-for" purchased but not enhanced compensation (full insurance). same thing as the previous claim, oh well

I definitely appreciate the support from this forum this far! i'm aware not to bluff on the 14 day deadlines there shouldn't be any issues with my commitment now that i've actually started the lettter of claim process

since this claim is virtually the exact same thing as my previous one all the knowledge and documents are already there to reference, so its pretty nice! unless there is a law change or they change tactics I assume this will be basically the same process. im virtually repeating the same arguments and documents just for a different parcel.

thanks for the thread links I've checked them out as well as your stickied updates on the judgments and ups situation too

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You don't need to reissue your letter of claim. You can just start the MCOL process immediately if you wish to.

 

I'm not sure if BF is just referring to making things more "tidy"

 

 I do not hold any legal qualification.

Nothing I say is meant as or should be taken as legal advice.

 

 

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So you paid for signature but one hasn't been produced for you.
I think it will be helpful to you and helpful generally that we start making an issue in cases where people have paid extra money for a signature and one hasn't been obtained.

 

Although you could simply issue the claim, decline mediation and then go to trial, there doesn't seem to be much hurry as an extra couple of weeks also delay won't make a lot of difference. I think it will be much better for you and also for other victims of EVRi generally to emphasise what a sloppy company they are as I think it is worth making a point of the signature.
It's only a small delay but it will add a lot of power to your claim – and you never know, they might put their hands up earlier (better for you – although I would prefer that it went to trial and we got a judgement).
You can issue the particulars if you want but I suggest that you hold off, send a quick request for the signature – which will no doubt be ignored or fobbed off – and then sent a new letter of claim referring specifically to the signature and then the particulars will refer also to the signature and the fact that you pay specifically to have a signature and that this was breached as well.

We have had several instances of signatures being paid for recently and not obtained. The Cagger above @jk2054 is a particular example and I think it is about time we started to make an issue of it.

It's up to EVRi how they want to deal with it but it is simply another example of a breach of contract giving rise to a legitimate claim which is being denied by EVRi.
I appreciate that maybe EVRi isn't directly responsible because it is a problem of their drivers who presumably don't get very much money the delivery and so they want to deliver and then move on – but at the end of the day, EVRi is asking for extra money which presumably doesn't find its way into the pockets of its drivers if they do get a signature.

EVRi must be aware of this by now – and on that basis it would be dishonest of them to profit from this – but yet they continue.

Of course EVRi are monitoring this thread and say they are fully aware of this discussion – but they won't do anything and they will still try to resist your claim because their paralegals are really just drones slaving away for senior management who no doubt are on bonuses and execs who are on bonuses and probably shareholders as well.

Post a draft of the letter here and then send it.

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Or you might prefer this compromise – which is simply to hold off on issuing the particulars of claim but send a request for the signature. I have no doubt that you will be fobbed off or you get the reply at all but you will then be able to amend your particulars of claim to refer to the signature and then issue it.
This will avoid the 14 day delay of sending it then you letter of claim.

I certainly think it is worth making an issue of the signature

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As far as I know, Paid for signatures usually mean the customer will sign when its delivered. My parcels were lost (or stolen) by the delivery driver as they pick up from the posted drop-off location, so wayyyy before a paid signature would even come into play for me.

Honestly I just want to get this 2nd parcel done as soon as possible, if it's okay I would prefer sticking with the original plan? especially when I have the past experience with my first parcel to know this formula is successful

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At the end of the day it's whatever you prefer.

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Signatures being collected forms part of the contract.

The matter was considered by the county court by a DJ in the middle of March this year, and whilst not bounding, in both cases it was found that EVRi did sell a signature but did not produce it.

It was confirmed that saying it is collected but not producing it, shows that, on the balance of probability it would NOT have been collected. This is because if it was collected, it would make sesne for it to form part of a defence that a parcel was delivered.

Therefore, because they aren;t produced the contract was breached.

Similarly the DJs in both cases considered whether this would be enough to constitue compensation. It was found that the signature would have meant it entered the physical possesion of the recipient, since signature is defined within the T&C.

Therefore, it was found, in both cases, the fact that no signature was collected does consitute a breach, and thus compensation is payable.

It is DEFINITELY worth mentioning.

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 I do not hold any legal qualification.

Nothing I say is meant as or should be taken as legal advice.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Absolutely normal. 

They do their best to waste your time and also the time of the courts. It doesn't cost them anything. 

It costs you and it costs the taxpayer so what do they care?

 

These are all the reasons why you should not agree to mediation but insist on going to trial. 

They will continue to waste your time right off until the trial date and then probably make you an offer. 

At least then it won't be in confidence and you can tell them to go and do one if they don't offer you 100% of what you are claiming

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys,

After the 14 days extension as expected received a response that Evri has rejected the claim

I'm attaching their defence. How does it read?

From what I can tell it looks very similar to their 1st parcel defence last year, except from what I notice instead of accepting the parcel is lost they are saying they don't know as it's been over a year so they dont keep tracking records that far.

Pretty scummy for them to do that since she is well aware from our emails that they did lose this parcel and the reason why it's been over a year is because I waited until they settled and paid on the first parcel before starting this claim on the second. Anyway, I have all the emails and postage evidence if they wierdly want to use that as an angle?

The other difference is this mammoth list of dates they can't attend. Last time the list was 14 dates.

I have until June 10th to respond

Thanks again,

claim-response.pdf

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Please put up these series of emails that you have received And which makes it clear that she is fully aware that the item is lost.

Put them up in Pdf format. Single file. Multi-page. In proper order. Please avoid repetition of messages

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same defence as always

 I do not hold any legal qualification.

Nothing I say is meant as or should be taken as legal advice.

 

 

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