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Urgent Court advice Vs Northern Rock ??


doyin22
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After winning all my bank charges decided to go after my Mortgage fees but I'm not getting anywhere with Northern Rock. I Sent all the standard LBA letters etc, only to be fobbed off and threated with court action, however i went ahead and filed on money claim, however NR entered a defence and now I've received the following letter full of legal jargon and I don't know how to respond.....please help?

 

 

"REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

(Part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules)

 

This is a request for further information made by the Defendant of the claimant under the practice direction 18 of the civil procedure rules. The claimant is requested to provide the clarification or inforamtion sought below by 4pm on 2 january 2007. The claimants response should be verified by a statement of truth in accordance with Part 22 of the civil procedure rules.

 

1. Particarise each and every alleged breach of the contract which it is claimed give rise to the said charges.

2. Particarise each and every alleged breach of contract which it is claimed give rise to the charges.

3. In relation to each said charges, particularise what if anything, the claimant consideres to be the claimants loss and or how the defendant is alleged to have been "unduly enriched" as a result of such charges.

4. In relation to each charges, particuarise which term or terms of the mortgage agreement between the claimant and the defendant (or other relavant contractual docuement) issaid to be unenforceable.

5. Particularise the provision of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regualtion 19999 and the unfair terms act 1977 upon which the claimant relies in order to found allegations that the said charges are unenforceable.

 

Dated 19 December 2006"

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Hi Doyin22,

 

You might want to have a look at meled's thread as they are at about the same stage as you:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/49082-me-nothern-rock.html

 

Is your claim for late payment fees or ERC or both? Also is your claim under or over 5k?

 

All the best

 

Zoot

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I've just received a reply to my letter from northern rock and don't know what to do:

 

"I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence dated 22 December 2006 in relation to Part 18 Request for Further Information.

As your claim has not yet been allocated to the small claims track a Part 18 Request is not excluded under CPR Part 27. Northern Rock plc requires you to particularise your claim as detailed in the Part 18 Request in order to enable it to defend your claim accordingly.

Simply sending the “Schedule of Claim for Charges” is not sufficient detail for your claim.

If Northern Rock plc does not receive a response to the Part 18 Request by 2 January 2006 it will apply to the Court to have your claim struck out.

Northern Rock plc strongly advises you take independent legal advice in respect of the above.

Yours sincerely

 

Miss Sarah Caldwell

Legal Assistant

Group Legal Department

Direct Dial: 0191 279 2505

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I've just received a reply to my letter from northern rock and don't know what to do:

 

"I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence dated 22 December 2006 in relation to Part 18 Request for Further Information.

As your claim has not yet been allocated to the small claims track a Part 18 Request is not excluded under CPR Part 27. Northern Rock plc requires you to particularise your claim as detailed in the Part 18 Request in order to enable it to defend your claim accordingly.

Simply sending the “Schedule of Claim for Charges” is not sufficient detail for your claim.

If Northern Rock plc does not receive a response to the Part 18 Request by 2 January 2006 it will apply to the Court to have your claim struck out.

Northern Rock plc strongly advises you take independent legal advice in respect of the above.

Yours sincerely

 

Miss Sarah Caldwell

Legal Assistant

Group Legal Department

Direct Dial: 0191 279 2505

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If you have sent them the standard letter asking for your charges back and telling them that you now know these charges to be unlawfull, and you have sent a copy of the schedule detailing the amounts, dates and what the charge was for, then you have nothing to worry about. This is a standard reply to intimidate you into thinking that you havent a leg to stand on! Just reply saying you have sent this information xxx times, and enclose herewith again a further copy of the scheule. Send a copy to the courts. And dont worry.

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Thanks for that, I've followed the standard letters and it worked with my claim against Birmingham Midshires mortgage. It seems that Meled and I are at the same point with Northern Rock.

I've copyed the responce you gave him and plan on sending the following,

Dear

 

Claim No: ??????

I am in receipt of your letter of 22nd December 06 regarding the above claim.

 

I note that you assert that my particulars of claim fail to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against Northern Rock plc.

 

I find this most perplexing. My particulars of claim clearly identify the account contract to which I am referring. It is perfectly clear that the source of the monies which I am claiming is derived from money taken by Northern Rock plc in respect of my breaches of the account contract and further, I have supplied a detailed breakdown of the charges on a separate schedule three times now, and enclose herewith again a further copy of the schedule. In addition I have explained why I consider that the charges are unenforceable at common law. Finally I have made clear the total figure that I am claiming.

I will add now that the recent Office of Fair Trading report concluded that bank penalty charges are indeed excessive and in breach of the common law because they exceed the actual costs caused by my breach. Furthermore, as I am sure you are aware, this practice was roundly criticised recently by Walter Merricks, Chief Ombudsman as he commented on the way that complaints over charges are being handled by the banks and he went on to state that the banks should either pay the claims in full or demonstrate that these charges are not penalties.

 

I have clearly identified and stipulated the following;

 

1. The contract

 

2. The term of the contract in question

 

3. The wrong which I say Northern Rock plc has committed

 

4. The amount of my damage suffered

 

I fail to see what else you expect to find in my particulars of claim. Furthermore I would say that your defence does not answer my particulars of claim in any way and therefore this letter which, I am copying to the Court, is my formal request to the Court to grant me a summary judgement for the entire sum claimed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've hit another dead end with Northern Rock and need some advice... I relyed as adviced to their Part 18 request for Further Information and have now received a letter telling me they are appliying to the court to have my case cancelled.

 

" I enclose a copy of an Application Notice that i have formally filed with the courts today. You will note the Application Notice is in respect of stricking out the claim and the Part 18 Request for Further Information.

 

You will also note that Northern Rock Plc has requested the hearing be conducted by way of telephone hearing due to the court being situated in West London and Northern Rock's head office being situated in Newcastle upon Tyne, in order to save costs.

 

I should be grateful if you would confirm that you consent to a telephone hearing by return. In addition, kindly confirm the telephone number on hich you will be available.

 

Your sincerely

 

Sarah Caldwell"

 

 

What should i do now, i don't want to lose due to ther tactics when i'm so close.

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Not looking good today, i submitted the above letter and today recieved the following letter telling me they are appliying to the court to have my case cancelled:

 

" Dear Miss xxxxx,

 

I enclose a copy of an Application Notice that i have formally filed with the courts today. You will note the Application Notice is in respect of stricking out the claim and the Part 18 Request for Further Information.

 

You will also note that Northern Rock Plc has requested the hearing be conducted by way of telephone hearing due to the court being situated in West London and Northern Rock's head office being situated in Newcastle upon Tyne, in order to save costs.

 

I should be grateful if you would confirm that you consent to a telephone hearing by return. In addition, kindly confirm the telephone number on hich you will be available.

 

Your sincerely

 

Sarah Caldwell"

 

Their application notice sates the following as evidence :

 

" the defendeant applies to the court for an order to stike out a statement of case as the claimants statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

 

The defendant considers the claimant's statement of case to be insufficiently detailed and the Defendant served a Part 18 Request for further information (copy enclosed) on the claimant dated 19 december 2006. The defendant considers the claimant's response to the Part 18 Request for Further Information dated 22 December 2006 (copy attached) does not comply with CPR 18 and communicated this to the calimant in corresspodence dated 22 December 2006 (copy attached) again fails to answer the Part 18 Request for Further Information. Therfore the Defendant has applied to the court to have the claim struck out because the statement of case is insufficiently detailed and without further particularisation discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing a claim.

 

If the court is not minded to strike out the Claimant's statement of case the Defendant applies for an order requiring the Claimant to fully particularise her claim by answering the attached Part 18 Request for Further Information."

 

Any advice will be much appricated as I don't have a clue what to dod next.

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Did you send a copy of the letter to the courts, asking them to attach to your case? If not, then get it in the post asap. Also write back to Northern Rock advising that CPR18 is not required unless directed by the courts. Tell them they are using stalling and intimidatory tactics claiming not to have particulars of the claim when indeed they do. Tell them you will bring this to the attention of the court. Tell them you gladly agree to hearing by telephone upon disclosure of their costs and that you look forward to receiving disclosure by return.

 

Have a look at my threaed on Natwest bank charges. Natwest solicitors pulled the same card!

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have they said on what grounds theya re applying to have the claim struck out with?

All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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This is the letetr and Application notice the sent:

 

"Dear Miss xxxxx,

 

I enclose a copy of an Application Notice that i have formally filed with the courts today. You will note the Application Notice is in respect of stricking out the claim and the Part 18 Request for Further Information.

 

You will also note that Northern Rock Plc has requested the hearing be conducted by way of telephone hearing due to the court being situated in West London and Northern Rock's head office being situated in Newcastle upon Tyne, in order to save costs.

 

I should be grateful if you would confirm that you consent to a telephone hearing by return. In addition, kindly confirm the telephone number on hich you will be available.

 

Your sincerely

 

Sarah Caldwell"

 

Their application notice sates the following as evidence :

 

" the defendeant applies to the court for an order to stike out a statement of case as the claimants statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

 

The defendant considers the claimant's statement of case to be insufficiently detailed and the Defendant served a Part 18 Request for further information (copy enclosed) on the claimant dated 19 december 2006. The defendant considers the claimant's response to the Part 18 Request for Further Information dated 22 December 2006 (copy attached) does not comply with CPR 18 and communicated this to the calimant in corresspodence dated 22 December 2006 (copy attached) again fails to answer the Part 18 Request for Further Information. Therfore the Defendant has applied to the court to have the claim struck out because the statement of case is insufficiently detailed and without further particularisation discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing a claim.

 

If the court is not minded to strike out the Claimant's statement of case the Defendant applies for an order requiring the Claimant to fully particularise her claim by answering the attached Part 18 Request for Further Information."

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Ok, the part 18 was asking you for more information on WHY you think you should get your money back and on what basis you can rely on which will prove that the charges are unlawful. What did you put into your response?

 

They are asking for the claim to be struck out on the basis that you have not shown enough reason for the claim to proceed. What was in your original claim form that was presented to court?

 

Do not agree to the telephone hearing, on the basis that you wish to show paper based evidene to the court. You will need to have a good read on the facts you used on your original claim. Simply saying you want your money back because they are unlawful will not be sufficient. You need to use and rely on fact which you will find in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs and in the Office Fair Trading Report. Also advisable is to read the supply of good act.

 

Hope this helps, please read read and read some more, its a lot of money, its yours and you need to get it back!

All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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We seem to be getting all hung up on part 18 requests recently and there havd been lots of threads about it over recent weeks.

 

Just answer their request and serve one of your own together with an amended particulars of claim if you think it is sensible to do so. Then when you send the response to them ask them to withdraw their application and tell them that if it goes ahead you will ask the court to order that they pay the costs of the hearing.

 

Have a read of my old thread on defence and part 18 requests and I hope it helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

The thread is here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/15172-reply-stock-defence-18-a.html

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I'm very confused about all this Part 18 requests, Its way over my head now and I may have to drop the case. Their request was for the following:

 

"REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

(Part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules)

 

This is a request for further information made by the Defendant of the claimant under the practice direction 18 of the civil procedure rules. The claimant is requested to provide the clarification or inforamtion sought below by 4pm on 2 january 2007. The claimants response should be verified by a statement of truth in accordance with Part 22 of the civil procedure rules.

 

1. Particarise each and every alleged breach of the contract which it is claimed give rise to the said charges.

2. Particarise each and every alleged breach of contract which it is claimed give rise to the charges.

3. In relation to each said charges, particularise what if anything, the claimant consideres to be the claimants loss and or how the defendant is alleged to have been "unduly enriched" as a result of such charges.

4. In relation to each charges, particuarise which term or terms of the mortgage agreement between the claimant and the defendant (or other relavant contractual docuement) issaid to be unenforceable.

5. Particularise the provision of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regualtion 19999 and the unfair terms act 1977 upon which the claimant relies in order to found allegations that the said charges are unenforceable.

 

Dated 19 December 2006"

I had sent off a letter refusing and just hope the courts don't ask me to reply.

" ...CPR18 is not required unless directed by the courts. I now feel you are using stalling and intimidatory tactics claiming not to have particulars of the claim when indeed you do. I am now bringing this to the attention of the court.

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  • 1 month later...

I've been away and just logged on to read the bad news and very confussed on what to do next???

 

The good news is that i got a hearing date of 23 may and the judge ordered that:

 

"1. Matter to be listed for a hearing with a time estimate of 1 hour

 

2. Application for a telephone conference is refused."

 

However, i'm a bit worried abot going ahead now after reading the other threads.

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Zoot

 

I am claiming charges, ERC,completion fee and exit fee, my claim is for a total of about £2000.

 

i refused the request for their part 18 and they wrote to the courts asking for it to be struck off but the judge has refused since they have now sent me a court date. I sent the following letter to the judge:

"Please find enclosed copies of all my letters to the defendant.

I have responded to all the defendants’ letters to date, and I would like to complain about the offhand manner in which these supposedly professionals are behaving towards a lay individual, and respectfully suggest that they are using stalling tactics claiming not to have particulars of the claim.

As you are aware, there are several thousand cases now coming against banks and I am aware of hundreds of people who are currently claiming against this Defendant and I am in contact with others who have received the exact same letters from the defendant.

 

I feel that I am enough of a disadvantage as it is, one non-legally trained person against the might of a huge financial corporation with a vast legal department, and am both shocked and disgusted at the contempt with which they treat me and the Court’s Directions.

 

Respectfully yours,"

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  • 2 months later...

An update on my case, i sent of the following letter last week

"Without Prejudice save as to Costs

Dear miss Caldwell

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxx

RE: Court Claim no - xxxxxx

I am writing to give you a final opportunity to settle my claim without the time and costs of the courts.

Our hearing is approaching and as your request for a telephone hearing was denied, I am willing to cancel should you offer full settlement to save yourselves further costs.

I look forward to your response"

I got a response on saturday offering me a settlement and don't understand their reasons but i am taking it as my claim was only for £1000 and that included application fee/exit fee and i was chancing my luck asking for application fees back.

The letter reads..

" .... At this stage, Northern rock plc is yet to receive a properly particularised claim, let alone a compelling line of legal reasoning that might persuade it to settle this matter and vacate the hearing listed for 23 May 2007. However, it estimates that Northern Rock Plc's legal costs for making the application will be in the region of £400.

Given the above, for reasons of commercial expediency and without the admission of liablity whatsoever in relation to your claim, Northern Rock plc is therfore willing to offer a settlement comprising of the estimated costs of teh hearing to be incurred, totalling £400, and £285 which Northern Rock agreeed to refund to you as set ouyt in its defence.

Kindly confirm by return if you are minded to accept this offer of settlememnt and Northgern Rock will forward a cheque to you for £685...."

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