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    • After the dealer failed to refund the money I checked the sort code and account number to reveal which bank received the money. It turned out to be HSBC BUSINESS DIRECT ONLINE. I called them and they confirmed the account name wasn’t Langley Cars though obviously didn’t tell me the correct account name. My bank contacted HSBC after I reported this to be fraud and they did in fact do a charge back but reversed the decision when the dealer sent a copy of the receipt he gave me for the deposit where it said it was non-refundable. I said that doesn’t mean anything when the car should never have been put on the forecourt when it was a death trap, and not fit for purpose.   The MOT revealed only a few of the faults which he agreed to correct in a week as I needed the car to travel out of London for work. He didn’t meet that deadline either because there were other more serious problems as identified by my independent car check. The same mechanic informed the dealer of these faults. The car wasn’t fixed by the agreed date due to the extensive repairs needed. So he was in breach of our contract on many levels.    I requested the bank find out the correct name of the account and they said the only information they had was like you said was the account number and sort code. I challenged the bank stating that whenever I create a new payee if the name doesn’t match the registered account name, it declines the creation of the proposed payee. So what happened in this instance?    I checked company’s house using the address from where the dealership is located and there was neither the two names, one was aa advertised in AUTOTRADER and the other on the courtyards entrance. I thought as I had made payment to the dealers ‘Trading as’ name that it would more than likely be enforceable than any other. Indeed the Bailiff was the one to call me and say that a variation of the warrant of control needed to be done before he could go and enforce the order. I cross-checked the address on Companies House website and got 3 different business names. Only one appears to be car related.  I am unsure as to what I can do within the variation of the warrant which the bailiff felt was appropriate. I will speak to him again Monday. 
    • Their PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. iit was not posted until 13 days after the event for one thing meaning it would be deemed to arrive on the 15th day instead of the 14th day. Now though we cannot expect that your PCN also missed the deadline there were still two other things wrong with the wording of the PCN that if your PCN has the same wording as your friends means that your PCN would not be compliant either. Their PCN does not specify the period of parking as required n the Act. It does show the ANPR arrival and departure dates but as those times include driving from the entrance to finding a parking place then later driving from the parking place to the exit cannot be described as a parking period. I suspect that the " Important Note" on your form will also not comply though I cannot be sure until we see your actual PCN.The reason I can't confirm that is because they sent out the PCN too late they have said that they are pursuing your friend on the assumption that they were the driver as well as the keeper-something that Courts do not accept. But it does look as if your PCN is not compliant which means that the keeper cannot be held liable to pay the charge. Only the driver can be made to pay it. If you have not appealed and revealed who was driving, there is no way that  Excel know who was driving.  So just to be sure please send them an SAR . On another topic do you have any proof that you did not stay there for so long just to really spoil Excel's day.
    • As your first PCN was a Notice to Driver which would have been followed by a Notice to keeper over a month later [even though it may only state Parking Charge notice] it is even more necessary to send PE an SAR. If either document fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act  2012 Schedule 4 then both you and your father are in the clear. So you do not need to worry about is any paperwork from unregulated debt collectors and fifth rate solicitors. The only thing to look out for is a Letter of Claim and all you have to do is respond with a snotty letter back to them .  
    • Thanks so much dx. I really am grateful for your advice Billy  
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EPC UK Debt Collector - Unpaid Toll Fees in Portugal


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We have travelled to Portugal several times over recent years and have just received 4 letters from EPC (a UK company who I believe have bought debts from Vialivre who the Portugues Toll Agency in Portugal) demanding payment for alleged unpaid hire car toll fees in Portugal between 2018 and 2021. 

An example of one demand; £45 toll fee plus a Vialivre administration fee around £48, £103 total.

EPC have added another admin fee of £134, totally roughly £228.

These demands state the registration plate, that we have no idea is the car we hired or not, and the journeys made,

As these notifications are the first we have received we are in shock and don't quite know what to do and wonder if this is enforceable and/or even lawful. We always paid, or attempted to pay, our tolls at the post office before we returned home but unfortunately no longer have proof of payment.

Also, there was never a mechanism in place to pay the tolls for our return journey to the airport as it took 24 hours+ before toll charges are registered there.

Really appreciate any guidance and/or advice you are able to give.

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Thank you for responding to my post, really appreciate it! 

I have no idea where they got our details from and can only assume initially from the car hire company we used at the time.

I haven't reached out to the car hire company as I very much doubt they would be able to advise us from a legal standpoint.

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Welcome to the forum

He will have already had notification from his name being being referred to above.

Topic moved to Debt collection Agencies Forum.

 

Andy

 

 

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You should be able to bat this away very easily.

Can you please upload one of these demands, redacted of your personal details?

You say that EPC have bought these debts but I strongly suspect they haven't.  Their webpage says they "administer the collection" and "collect outstanding toll fees" which tends to suggest they are acting as a powerless debt collecting agency.

https://www.epcplc.com/portuguese_road_tolls

I'm writing during my lunch break but promise to be on the forum this evening after I knock off work.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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if you type in epc in our search top right you'll see there are numerous threads here on this DCA

a dca  are not a bailff and have zero powers on any debt no matter what its type.

ignore them 

here is an example

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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notice how the cheeky dca epc double the cost by adding their fake charges

absolute astounding

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Say you & I were in legal dispute.  I could sue you and you could sue me.  Your best mate couldn't sue me.  My next-door neighbour couldn't sue you.  Because the case would have nothing to do with them.

And this is the situation with EPC or indeed any other debt collector.  They can do nothing.  It isn't their debt.

We have several EPC threads here and after all the threats nothing happened.

I think Nicky Boy wanted me to contribute as I have seen off the real owners of a debt for a motoring infringement in an EU country, but your situation is even easier.  Relax & ignore the threats.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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Thank you very much Dave, your logic makes perfect sense and is music to my ears!

I have one more question please, if I may,

that is in relation to paragraph 3 on the back page of the notifications from EPC 'How to Present a Complaint' and there it states "A complaint can be presented online.

The EPC Group will then place your case(s) on hold and if necessary, forward your complaint or question for consideration to Vialivre SA"

Therefore, can I can safely assume EPC are NOT owners of the alleged debt and as you eluded to previously "administer the collection" and "collect outstanding toll fees" which tends to suggest they are acting as a powerless debt collecting agency?

Once again, very many thanks for your invaluable time and support.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have a read of the last posts on istrianadventurer's thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/459903-fine-from-epc-for-having-no-vignette-in-hungary/#comment-5219106

The news is good 😃

 

Edited by FTMDave
Typo

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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or post 6 in the same thread... from me.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

What a lovely "Information notice"...

And they've even been kind enough to "extend the due date"... How thoughtful!

 

Just a thought for the team...We've seen a few of these now. I'm wondering about data protection concerns.

As we are no longer in the EU, so should EPC be obtaining data from the DVLA and presumably passing it on to another EU country?

I see that they are members of BPA, so are they using KADOE to obtain keepers details for use in a foreign country?

I understand tha the DVLA are supposed to only issue data for valid reasons...

Would it be worth asking the OP to send a SAR to DVLA and EPC to find out what reason is being used to obtain their info and whether the data is being shared abroad?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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Hi Nicky Boy

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, much appreciate as always! As this 'alleged' toll fee contravention is for a hired car am I right to assume the DVLA will not be involved?

Thanks again

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Nick is spot on.

How kind of them to send all this free tourist information for Portugal.  I went to Portugal for Euro 2004 and I will certainly bear their advice in mind should I have a return visit.

None of which has any relevance to them pursuing you for money.

All over Europe, if you don't pay what you should, you get penalties to pay on top ... not an extension of 28 days!!!  They have kindly given you this extra time because they know full well they can't do anything to you.  Relax and ignore

Nick, I would presume it was the car hire company that gave the details.  Sure, EPC are a member of the BPA, but I don't think that's directly relevant.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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