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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Second hand car problems - scotland


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The first thing you could do is to tell us the name of the dealer.

Unless you feel that you want to protect them

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That's all right. Give their personal name. It is all helpful to other people who have the same problems.

Meet may also be the other people will recognise it and will join this thread and contribute to the support we are giving to you

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Okay, and appreciated that you haven't even contacted the seller.

In that case I suggest that you make a list of the errors that you have found and send the seller a gentle email – not conflictual, not aggressive – but simply pointing them out and explained that the errors were there when the car was bought and you would like him to deal with them.
I fully expect that the dealer will either not answer all be completely uncooperative – but let us know what happens and if the dealer is not helpful then post all the details about them.

In terms of your rights – your rights are easy. If you buy a car which manifests defects in the first six months then the dealer is entitled to be given one opportunity to repair failing which you would then be entitled to insist on a refund or a replacement at your option.

In any event, you are entitled to purchase a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time. People come and tell you that you have to show that the defect was there the time of purchase that in fact that is not what is said in any statute. That is an urban myth.
If you purchase a car for £5000 then you should certainly expect it to run without any significant issues for a year or two I would have thought.

Certainly a vehicle purchased in July should be running without any issues now.

Those are your rights.

Enforcing a rights is a completely different matter. If the dealer chooses to be uncooperative then you will probably have to sue the dealer. You will win – that part is easy. But then you have to enforce the judgement and if the dealer was to be slippery and either liquidate his company and start a new one – called Phoenixing – then he will probably be able to avoid judgement. If he is able to show that he has no assets then he will be able to avoid judgement.
If he is not trading as a limited liability company then you stand a better chance particularly if you can identify his home address and he owns his own home.

But let's to each bit at a time. Send the general letter which I have suggested and let's see. I would wait too long if I were you. Send it by email and if you don't get a response within five days or so then come back here

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I think you should send the message to their home address.

Also you could have a look at the land registry records to see if they own that address.

It will cost about three quid but they will be money well spent

SEARCH-PROPERTY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Second hand car problems - scotland

Yes, it's my dictation software and I get careless about proofreading what I have posted.

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Sorry, I overlooked it. I was so engrossed with the video that you posted I got distracted. Obviously your fault!!!

You have said that you purchased the vehicle in July 2013???

I think there is too much narrative.

I think you should start are simply saying when you bought the car – you need to give the registration number et cetera.

Refer to the MOT and the other things claim the listing.

However within the first three months, the following faults have manifested themselves

  • One
  •  
  • Two
  •  
  • Three
  •  
  • Four

blah blah blah

You have attempted the following remedial action:

  • one
  •  
  • Two
  •  
  • Three
  •  
  • Four

and incurred the following expenses

  • £.
  • £.
  • £.


    Don't start talking about whether the faults were there at the time of purchase. Refer to your right to be sold a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time and clearly it hasn't.

    I suggest that you prepare draft based on the outline that I have suggested above and post that for us to see

 

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If you can prove definitively that the faults were there at the time of purchased and that is very helpful.

However, if there is any doubt about it then the most important thing is that the car is not of satisfactory quality and hasn't remained that way for a reasonable period of time

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Okay. The letter is fine. You should send it.

I would advise you to remove the CC Consumer action group.

It is too conflictual at this point.

I understand that you haven't alerted the dealer to any office faults all of the expenses that you incurred until this moment.

You haven't helped yourself by this. The correct way to do it would have been to identify the Faults and to get quotations for the work and then to submit them to the dealer giving them 5 days or so to comment or to object.

The fact that you have apparently collected off these false and then collected off of various bills and are now trying to hit them for it without any notice and without an opportunity for them to discuss or to remedy will complicate things.

However, send the letter. Don't imagine that you will be sending a little claim next week.

As I have said I think that by failing to give notice you have put yourself in a tricky situation and there is likely to be a few exchanges before you can get to the position of claiming.

What will depend on the attitude of the dealer once they have received your letter.

Have you had any proper reports done which will show a professional independent view of the defects which you have discovered?

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I think you are wrong in terms of leaving the CC.

I think is far more impressive if it looks as if you are sufficiently powerful to put it together yourself without any support. That is much more scary, in my view.

Regardless of the difficulty of the circumstances, you have and help yourself by not informing the dealer and at least one email explaining what had happened and putting them on notice that you were having the work done immediately because you had no choice and it was going to be £XXX – would have helped enormously.
As it is you are now having to play catch up and if the dealer says that this is the first they have heard of it and they were never given any opportunity to carry out repairs or anything as they would normally be entitled to do, their position would be very reasonable.

Of course it is too late now – but you did have the time to notify them. He did make a second journey of 250 miles and you still hadn't notified them. You then did leave the car in the garage to be repaired during which time you could have easily have informed the dealer – and you didn't and you still haven't.

In fact come to think of it I think you should amend the letter above if you haven't already sent it and explain why it is that this is the first contact.

I suggest that you do that and post the letter here so we can have another look

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1 hour ago, Geronimo1 said:

Thanks for the advice. However, I have decided to take a different approach.

Thanks for this update. I hope that your different approach works.

We would be very interested to know what you have in mind and how it works for you because other people who come to this forum for help with similar situations would probably find it very useful.

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Thanks.

That sounds like a very nice approach. I'm afraid that we have probably been corrupted here by running this forum for 17 years and having to deal with a constant stream of companies and individuals who lack any kind of moral compass.

I suppose that the whole thing has shredded our karma over the years.

I hope your approach works well and produces a result but anyway, if it works well for you whatever the outcome then that is probably the most important thing.

I hope you have a good break but we'd be pleased to be updated as to the eventual outcome.

 

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I suppose that it is a question of approach.

On this forum although we give considerable one-to-one help, we like to feel that in some way we help to empower the individual so that the next time they have a run-in with some company/dealer/supplier/installer they retain a sense of self-confidence and they have at least an idea of the route they will take to deal with their problems.
I hope that in some way we tend to level the playing field. To equalise the positions of the inexperience consumer and the well resourced experienced company that isn't prepared to step up to its obligations.
Our view is that if you pay 100% then you get 100%.

I'm afraid that putting cc: at the bottom of letters tends to convey the message that "if you don't play ball, I get my dad on to you".

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