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    • Hi All   After a bit of advice to see where I stand. Bought a car in Sept 2022 on pcp. Been told it had a big inspection and was good to go. Had many issues with it throughout the year including trims coming off the car and sunroof not closing.   While getting the sunroof repaired at month 12, in Sept 2023, the bodyshop guy said your cars been in a bad accident. Garage said it hasn't but offered to take the car back at half of what I paid for it as long as I buy a replacement from them before inspecting it (probably damage control) (car was £78k, said they'd offer £40k "trade in value" as if doing me a favour).   Ended up getting a forensic inspection done for £2400 in Dec 2023, confirmed car was in a bad smash (write off level but unrecorded on hpi) and potentially unsafe to drive - front end is slightly bent towards 1 side, what looks like a hairline crack on the chasis, overspray, bonner with patches of filler all over it, damaged rubbers etc   Raised complaint to finance company and few weeks ago to FOS... just wondering what people's experiences have been like going through the FOS, main thing that concerns me is that it was 12-13 months after I bought the car that I realised what caused these issues and raised the issue to the garage/ finance co but the damage/ misaligned panels are actually visible in the advert photos which I saved thankfully.    Dealership has had my car for 4 weeks to let a few bodyshops look at it (without giving me a courtesy car!!!) Not giving me any updates either because I went to the FOS about it and didnt want to speak to them over the phone anymore as opposed to emails. Note: hanging trim was reported within 3 months but due to part delays it didn't come until like July 2023, within 2 months the piece came off again, claimed under repairers warranty for another replacement 6 weeks ago and within 2 weeks this time the trim is coming off AGAIN (assuming it won't stay on due to the car being actually bent out of shape slightly)   Any idea if I have a good case or if there's anything else I can do?   Thanks
    • After the dealer failed to refund the money I checked the sort code and account number to reveal which bank received the money. It turned out to be HSBC BUSINESS DIRECT ONLINE. I called them and they confirmed the account name wasn’t Langley Cars though obviously didn’t tell me the correct account name. My bank contacted HSBC after I reported this to be fraud and they did in fact do a charge back but reversed the decision when the dealer sent a copy of the receipt he gave me for the deposit where it said it was non-refundable. I said that doesn’t mean anything when the car should never have been put on the forecourt when it was a death trap, and not fit for purpose.   The MOT revealed only a few of the faults which he agreed to correct in a week as I needed the car to travel out of London for work. He didn’t meet that deadline either because there were other more serious problems as identified by my independent car check. The same mechanic informed the dealer of these faults. The car wasn’t fixed by the agreed date due to the extensive repairs needed. So he was in breach of our contract on many levels.    I requested the bank find out the correct name of the account and they said the only information they had was like you said was the account number and sort code. I challenged the bank stating that whenever I create a new payee if the name doesn’t match the registered account name, it declines the creation of the proposed payee. So what happened in this instance?    I checked company’s house using the address from where the dealership is located and there was neither the two names, one was aa advertised in AUTOTRADER and the other on the courtyards entrance. I thought as I had made payment to the dealers ‘Trading as’ name that it would more than likely be enforceable than any other. Indeed the Bailiff was the one to call me and say that a variation of the warrant of control needed to be done before he could go and enforce the order. I cross-checked the address on Companies House website and got 3 different business names. Only one appears to be car related.  I am unsure as to what I can do within the variation of the warrant which the bailiff felt was appropriate. I will speak to him again Monday. 
    • Their PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. iit was not posted until 13 days after the event for one thing meaning it would be deemed to arrive on the 15th day instead of the 14th day. Now though we cannot expect that your PCN also missed the deadline there were still two other things wrong with the wording of the PCN that if your PCN has the same wording as your friends means that your PCN would not be compliant either. Their PCN does not specify the period of parking as required n the Act. It does show the ANPR arrival and departure dates but as those times include driving from the entrance to finding a parking place then later driving from the parking place to the exit cannot be described as a parking period. I suspect that the " Important Note" on your form will also not comply though I cannot be sure until we see your actual PCN.The reason I can't confirm that is because they sent out the PCN too late they have said that they are pursuing your friend on the assumption that they were the driver as well as the keeper-something that Courts do not accept. But it does look as if your PCN is not compliant which means that the keeper cannot be held liable to pay the charge. Only the driver can be made to pay it. If you have not appealed and revealed who was driving, there is no way that  Excel know who was driving.  So just to be sure please send them an SAR . On another topic do you have any proof that you did not stay there for so long just to really spoil Excel's day.
    • As your first PCN was a Notice to Driver which would have been followed by a Notice to keeper over a month later [even though it may only state Parking Charge notice] it is even more necessary to send PE an SAR. If either document fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act  2012 Schedule 4 then both you and your father are in the clear. So you do not need to worry about is any paperwork from unregulated debt collectors and fifth rate solicitors. The only thing to look out for is a Letter of Claim and all you have to do is respond with a snotty letter back to them .  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Employer Not Paying Wages


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Over the last few months my daughter's employer has been paying all staff late and her monthly wage late in fact 2 months behind and due to this happening and the stress, she has been forced to leave the company and started a new job which is way forward, her old employer has still not paid my wages and its been 9 weeks and the amount is over £4000.00 and they are now not giving any information when this will be paid. Over recent months due to have no wages she has had to live on my credit cards which are all at maximum and we have been supporting her paying her mortgage and bills which is now crippling every month.    

I need advice in how to resolve this major issue quickly and to bring closure 

 

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Please will you tell us the name of the company.

Also, how much are we talking about?

How long has has she been working there and has she accrued any holiday pay

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Also please tell us the precise date that she left the company

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The company is Advanced Oncotherapy and employed there for 3 years and left on 9th June, and had no wages for 9 weeks. And no information when wages & outstanding holiday will be paid, staff still employed are in the same situation as well. 

 

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The comments on glassdoor aren't all favourable and the company don't seem all that well organised, according to what people are saying. I'm not a member but a google search shows that at least one person mentions late payments.

For a stockmarket quoted company this is disappointing.

WWW.GLASSDOOR.COM

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Never been an issue until December 2022 and since then late payment of wages and now no information nor any payment of outstanding wages. Totally agree the directors getting paid and not paying the staff. 

 

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I have put the word out to one of our people @Emmzzi who is extremely knowledgeable about employment law but in the meantime I would suggest that you make an immediate complaint to the employment tribunal.

You have a very short time to do this – the time limit is three months and I understand that your daughter has already left her job nine weeks ago.

You need to get this going.

She would be claiming unfair dismissal on the basis that she has been constructively dismissed. It's a long time since I've done this kind of stuff but I can tell you the constructive dismissal if actively means that the employers have created a situation which is so intolerable that they have effectively dismissed your daughter even though it was her choice to go.

I would say that not being paid for any particular period of time would be an intolerable situation and she will be justified in leaving. She has been working there for more than two years and presumably more than 16 hours a week so she has employment rights.

The other reason you need to get going is that presumably this company is in trouble and they may pull the plug before you know it and then there will be no action before the employment tribunal or elsewhere.

As a backup action, you can also sue in the County Court – but unfair dismissal damages would be far more interesting.

Hopefully @Emmzzi will be along before too long and will either confirm what I say give you further advice or give you better alternatives.

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Hello,

if all she seeks is the unpaid wages, small claims court will be faster and easier. Send a letter before action, outlining what is owed and giving say 14 days to respond before a claim is raised.

if she wants any unpaid holiday owing and a notice period, then proceed as @BankFodder suggests above, being aware there is a bigger backlog for ETs than Small Claims and it may take longer.

Neither route is speedy I am afraid.

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Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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  • 1 month later...

Well been stressful few weeks, we contacted ACAS and they accept the complaint and ACAS started action using the early consolation and ACAS confirmed they are speaking to the Employer but getting nowhere in fact every call was no staff to deal with this matter at this time. However last night ACAS ended the early consolation stating the employer has now refused to deal with this matter and they have issued a certificate and stated my daughter now has 1 month less 1 day to make a claim for constructive dismissal. 

With regard to outstanding wages which currently is £4,775.50 this has not been paid nor any information when it will be paid, the company have issued May & June pay slips again no payment. We have started to input using the MoneyClaim Online and looking at filing against the company & the CEO / director as well as person.  

Our Plan 

1, Issued both the company & the CEO letter before action giving 14 days notice ( Just need to find draft copy ) 

2, On day 15 if payment not made to my daughter submit the paperwork to the court via MoneyClaim Online - To both company & CEO / Director who are registered at the same address (Company House confirms the company is still active)

3, Once court papers submitted online issue both parties the particulars of claim ( Our Evidence May, June payslips & letter from company referring to non-payment of wages to all staff also letter stating all staff will receive one-week wage to cover any charge s incurred with no payments made to my daughter.    

Question - The company are based to London City, can we ask any hearing be held in our local County Court as cannot see on the paperwork where any hearing will be held. 

Any feedback will be much appreciated 

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If you are going to go the County Court route then given the fact that it has gone to ACAS and you have your certificate, I would say that this is probably a good basis for dispensing with the letter of claim and going straight to MoneyClaim.

I would suggest in that case that you send them an email today saying that you will be issuing the claim on Tuesday if they don't make an immediate payment to you – and provide your bank details.

Once you have issued the claim, then wait for the 14 days to adapt to see if they file defence. C the defence but be prepared to apply for summary judgement immediately.

Look up CPR 24 on the County Court website and you will learn something about summary judgement – which basically means that you argue to the judge that there is no chance of success and that the court should award you judgement without even going to trial.

You are dealing here with a business which appears to be in trouble and you probably need to get your foot in the door – get a judgement at least so that you are a preferred creditor – and then get the judgement transferred up to the sheriffs for High Court enforcement.

 

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It is called "piercing the corporate veil" – and it is pretty difficult to do. You would have to show some real wrongdoing in order to get beyond the limited liability protection.
Look it up on the Internet – by all means include the CEO unless you find a downside. I'm afraid it's in a bit out of my experience.

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Incidentally, an application for summary judgement – CPR 24 – would have to be made by application notice form N244 which I'm afraid will cost you about 250 quid although you will have that sum awarded to you once you get judgement.

Of course the problem is always will be enforcement but I think that speed is of the essence here.
 

As @Emmzzi has pointed out, the IT route is probably going to take a long time.
However, if there is any money outstanding in lieu of notice or holiday pay – I don't see any problem adding that your County Court claim.

 

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We have given detailed list of outstanding money requesting payment and sent the email with delivery & read receipts. Personally don`t think they will pay and we will submit claim online Monday, spoken to ACAS this morning and they have said my daughter has good case of constructive dismissal and she should file this through to the Employment Tribunal using a solicitor so we now are looking into this as well, as we only have short window t file and been quoted 1 month less 1 day from ACAS .  Currently due to this my daughter is now in debt for £6k and very stressed and upset. 

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There is no need for you to use a solicitor in this case.

I am quite sure that you can start the process off yourself and it seems to me that there is no defence to the facts at all.

The main issue will be a question of trying to press ahead for a good level of compensation

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I have submitted the Employment Tribunal which was very simple to complete, question regarding the court action do we send to the companies registered office as per companies house as they also have another office in London as well. we have sent email today and got delivery & read receipts coming they have been opened.   

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Now here's a little problem that I'm not certain about.

I'm not sure if you can run parallel cases on basically the same issue – although until somebody stops you I suggest that you go ahead with the caveat that if you can't and you pay some claim fees, it may be that one of the claim fees – either for the IT or for the small claims court will probably not be refundable.

I don't have time to have a look round the Internet at the moment – maybe you could search and see can you bring simultaneous claims for unfair dismissal in the industrial tribunal and also bring a parallel breach of contract case in the County Court.
It may be that you can bring breach of contract case in the County Court and then explained to the IT that you are seeking a reduced settlement for unfair dismissal to take into account the money you have received through the County Court system.
I'm afraid I really don't have the answer to hand.

Maybe @Emmzzi or my site team colleague @Andyorch will have an idea.

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You cannot have the same case heard twice so one claim will stop when the other concludes. You can pursue elements which are for related, but not the same, matter.

 

 

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Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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WORKINGFAMILIES.ORG.UK

Some types of employment-related claims can be brought in the civil courts, rather than in an Employment Tribunal. This advice page offers a high level...

 

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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  • 2 months later...

Well its October and 6 months and still have not paid the outstanding wages, we have completed the ACAS route and they have issued certificate, we have passed everything to the employment tribunal and they have sent letter of claim and given a date on 16th Jan 2024. The employer has sent letter only to staff still employed stating they are aware ex staff have sent claims to London & Manchester and requested all claim be heard at the same time ?????? 

They have said their is still no date when funds will be released, very frustrating they still are not send any information to staff if they have left the business. 

We have set information we have to send to the tribunal which we will complete as per the dates.   

 

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  • 1 month later...

Well still no payment from the company, we have submitted claim to the Employment Tribunal along with 48 other claimants and the court have confirmed they are all the same so joined together and heard as group, the court have sent all the details to the company as well. 

We had text message from the company saying in simple terms, they will agree to making payments for outstanding wages only and will not agree to payments relating to pensions nor any compensation as they have been informed the Employment court is not enforceable. Hoping the employment court will acknowledge the claim / judgement. 

 

 

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HI

You need to send a copy of that Text from the Employer to the Employment Tribunal to make them aware of this.

Also them stating a judgement by an Employment Tribunal is unenforceable well I would love to know where they are getting there Legal Advice.

The following Government link is an Automatic PDF Download from HM Courts & Tribunal Service Form EX727 (have a good read of it)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6527c019aea2d00013219c2e/EX727_0923.pdf

This is Registry Trust Ltd Link:

WWW.REGISTRY-TRUST.ORG.UK

This is   Make a claim to an employment tribunal If you win your case link:

WWW.GOV.UK

How to take an employer to a tribunal: the hearing, what happens if you lose your case, how to appeal.

 

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Email from the Employer today and ET3 form sent to the Employment Tribunal they are admitting they have not paid staff and listed wages outstanding.

I write in response to the letter from the Employment Tribunal dated 14 November 2023, a copy of which is attached for convenience.

 In that letter, the Tribunal explained that:

 1.       the Claims would be heard together;

2.       the files would be referred for consideration by a Judge once the Respondent had had the opportunity to submit a response to each of the Claims (the Responses);

3.       a copy of the claim forms and the service papers in respect of the Claims would be copied to the Respondent; and

4.       if the Respondent sought to oppose the claims, it should submit draft Responses accompanied by an application for an extension of time explaining why the Responses were not served within the time period originally given.    

 Following this letter, the claim forms and service papers in respect of the Claims were sent to the Respondent on 14 November 2023 save for those for ***********  and Mr ********* which were sent on 28 November 2023.

In accordance with the instructions of the Tribunal, I attach to this letter draft Responses to the Claims.  For the avoidance of doubt, there are 24 draft Responses, relating to the following claims:-

Full list of Claimants 

The reason that Responses to the Claims were not served within the time period originally given is that the Respondent did not receive them, and only saw the claims when we received the Tribunal’s email of 14 November 2023. In the email of 14 November 2023, it was explained that proceedings were served at the Respondent’s registered office (*******************). The registered office is visited once per week but no post from the Tribunal has been found. The Respondent has been served with related proceedings by the London Central Tribunal but these were sent to the address at ( *************), and these were received safely and responses served in time.   

 Accordingly, I would be grateful if the Tribunal could treat this letter as the Respondent’s application for an extension of time for presentation of the Responses to the Claims of 28 days from the date on which the Respondent received the majority of claim forms in respect of the Claims (i.e. 14 November 2023), in accordance with Rule 20(1) of the Employment Tribunals Rules of Procedure 2013 (the Tribunal Rules). 

 This application is in accordance with the Overriding Objective for the following reasons:

 1.       Allowing the Respondent to submit the Responses will allow the Tribunal to determine the cases fairly and justly, with accurate information about the sums alleged to be owed and allowing the parties to be on an equal footing.

 2.       The failure to file the Responses in time was due to the Claims not having been received, for reasons beyond the Respondent’s control (and it has responded to all other related claims that it has received by the required deadline).

 3.       The Respondent would be prejudiced if it were unable to contest these claims, particularly in circumstances where some of the Claimants are claiming sums to which they are not entitled via a claim in the Employment Tribunal.

 4.       The Respondent has prepared draft Responses to 24 claims, as soon as reasonably practicable, to minimise further delay.

 5.       I do not anticipate that there would be any prejudice to the Claimants in the Tribunal granting an extension of time to the Respondent to file the Responses. The Respondent, on the other hand, would suffer significant prejudice if it were not allowed to present the Responses and to have the opportunity to contest some of the amounts claimed.

 I confirm that I have complied with Rule 30(2) of the Tribunal Rules and have copied this letter to the Claimants in the Claims, who should notify the Employment Tribunal of any objections within seven days of receipt of this letter.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Email from the Employment Court today, so reading the email the court are saying outstanding wages must be paid but no mention of compensation, so employer can stop paying staff wages so staff have to find new employment and staff do not get compensation this be classed as constructive dismal ?   

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

This email has been blind copied to the claimants.

Regional Employment Judge ****** has directed that we write to the claimants about the letter from the respondent asking for an extension of time, and the proposed response form in each claimants’ case which will become effective if time is extended by the Tribunal. These were sent to the claimants by the respondent on 30 November 2023. The Regional Employment Judge directs that any further objections to the application to extend time for the responses must be provided by 5 January 2024.

The claimants should note that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction to make an award in respect of payments that should have been made to the pension scheme, because that is a matter for the Pensions Regulator, and claimants who are still in employment cannot claim notice pay.   As for outstanding wages and holiday pay, will the claimants please confirm whether you accept the amounts which the respondent proposes to admit, and if you do not accept them please explain why that is and the amount you are claiming.  Tribunals awards for arrears of pay/holiday pay are made in gross terms so that the employer can deduct tax and national insurance when the payment is made.  Please reply by 5 January 2023.

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