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    • Hello, I am a private seller and recently sold a pair of trainers on eBay.  Everything seemed fine until just after the eBay 30 day mbg had expired.  The buyer contacted me with photos showing me that both shoes had ripped.  He wanted his money back, and after refusing to refund him, he then left me retaliatory and defamatory feedback on my profile to the effect that I had sold him fake trainers (this was removed by eBay).  He then initiated a chargeback via Paypal.  Invariably, the outcome was in his favour, and I have now been charged for the cost of the trainers.  I would have also been stung for the chargeback fee, but eBay refunded this.  Incidentally, I do have the email receipt of the trainers from when I bought them from a well-established and bona fide online retailer.  The susbequent conversation with eBay followed its predictable course, i.e. the chargeback is out of their hands etc. I have been in contact with citizens advice, and my bank.  Citizens advice told me that as a private seller I'm responsible for the "Title and description" of the goods, but not the performance, or the fitness for purpose.  To me it is clear; if you receive something that's not as described, you don't then use the goods, and more than 30 days later claim 'not as described'.  In my mind, this makes the claim fraudulent.  He's used the 'they're fake' card to give credence to a 'not as described' claim here, obviously, without any evidence.  My understanding is that the chargeback is unlawful, because the trainers were shipped as described.  However, I read something on an eBay forum regarding sellers having no statutory rights, i.e. no right to appeal against a chargeback decision, or to complain to the financial ombudsman.  Does this mean that if my bank disputes the charge on my behalf, it will be to no avail, even if it's recognisably a fraudulent chargeback?  I have reported it via the Action fraud website. Any advice, anyone?  Would be most grateful!
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Ejected From Queen's Hall, Edinburgh Venue / Refused Entry - Claiming Compensation or Refund ?


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Disgusted at the treatment I received in Edinburgh last night for Richard Thompson gig - never seen him live and looked forward to this opportunity for years and all I got to see was about 3 songs before I was forcefully ejected from the premises by their security thugs (some of whom were being quite threatening towards me) - now I've missed this opportunity and might never get another chance

They cited the reason as being it was RT's management who requested I be refused entry - because I was allegedly heckling him

Slight hyperbole there I think as all I did was call out in between songs something about why the bar was closed at the start of the performance (upon request from RT) 

The very idea of that - after I've paid good money to come for a night out and go and see some live music the least I expect is to be able to go and buy a pint !

The assault and discrimination was filmed and I will be passing this on to the police whom I have already reported assault to - but they said what I expected them to that "the venue is within their rights" bla bla - not if it's blatant discrimination 

Also not if the reasons stated are bogus - I can understand if I was being egregiously disruptive to the show but I simply wasn't in any way - just a little bit of audience participation and in between songs ? Big Deal !

So the least these disrespectful bullies can do is return the cost of the ticket as I did not see any of the performance other than a few songs at the start - how do I go about that (other than just writing to them and demanding a refund) ?

..

I am so done with this culture that on the basis of this I have decided that I am never going out again in this country - I've got tickets for a gig in Amsterdam next year and everywhere in Europe in general is just more friendly and civilised so I'm looking to emigrate also probably

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blimey 1st saw him and linda at i think epping in 1973.

lost count of the times right through into the 90's +100

not alot you can do sadly. they have everyright.

go do a chargeback to your bank?

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That works on Debit cards right ?

I'll write to them and demand a refund first and tell them if I they don't reimburse me I'll do that - I think it was through a ticket site I bought the ticket though

I'm so disappointed in RT - he was really out there in the early days but seems to have turned into some kind of prima donna wanting the doors shut and the bar closed after he takes to the stage - what the hell am I paying £40 quid for to go and see a live act and stand waiting for the last hour and a half waiting for another pint ? it was my one night one in a blue moon - I want to get a bit drunk and have fun and dance and sing - £6+ for a pint in a flimsy plastic tumbler as well

If I'm quite honest I'm never going for a night out in Edinburgh again - it's just nothing but attitude from the bar staff or thugs on the door - I often like to just go out on my own and meet people and that works well in places like Holland but over here if you're a single white guy on his own especially my age then you really are discriminated against and this doesn't only apply to the venue currently in question

I've had this before at a folk gig actually - Boo Hewerdine - another one that had the bar closed for his set - didn't bother me too much that time as I didn't feel like drinking anyway - I think I'll just swerve folk concerts in the future 

As for RT - I saw a few acoustics ones - sound wasn't great in there and then after that I don't even know if he came on with a full band and played some of his more rocky bluesy ones which I was hoping for too 

10 hours ago, dx100uk said:

go do a chargeback to your bank?

I had a look - it says I should send a copy of the email I just sent to the venue to VISA 

Should I send a copy to VISA or my Bank ?

If they decide to be difficult and refuse to at least reimburse me then I might look into making a compensation claim for discrimination or something - but I've probably screwed there unless I can afford a solicitor - venue can just say what they like and the law is there to cover their asses it's disgusting that I can be treated like this after paying over the odds for a night out

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you ring your bank, the debit card issuer. no good emailing or writing.

 

the venues in ED like glasgow have for years now operated a policy of no alcohol and closing bars with gigs early as it always leads to trouble on eve/night gigs. they were doing that when i was there 3yrs ago and in 2000, it's a live music licencing rule by the council on certain venues. + the promotors and the artist like it too as it means punters are there to see them not cause issues.

sadly you wont get anywhere with the venue, if they said you had to where a pink hat..not hat get out, it's there venue.

nor with the tickets sellers, not their problem WA. as for discrimination...not sure why you think thats applicable.. it' snot.

if you try a chargeback i most certainly would not mention anything about being ejected.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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3 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

if you try a chargeback i most certainly would not mention anything about being ejected.

What am I supposed to argue is the reason for me claiming a refund then ?

Closing the bar during a set is complete b.s I'm paying for a night out I expect a bar to be open for the full duration of my attendance !

If the reason for doing this is to prevent trouble then that sure worked well on Sunday night, didn't it..

Bottom line here is I paid to see a performance and was forcefully ejected for no good reason and missed it all - they now owe me a refund

I talked to someone online from VISA and they told me I must contact my bank

I took out insurance on this ticket too so maybe I can claim something there

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Bank says they can't raise a Charge Back because I entered the venue - what a load of crap - I'm seriously done with the nightlife industry in this country not one more penny of my money will be going there ever again !

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Of course never any discrimination against single white guys on their own

Didn't see or read anything about the bar being open or closed - but amid all the legalese from these pages they've probably covered themselves to act however they like I'm guessing

I didn't see anything about bar closing times on either of the terms and conditions from Queen's Hall or Alt-Tickets

alt. tickets ::: Terms & Conditions (alttickets.com)

Quote

 

6.2              You must comply with all relevant statutes, health and safety regulations and Venue regulations when attending the Event.  In addition, You must comply with all reasonable introductions issued by the Owner during the Event.

6.3              The Owner may refuse admission to the Venue to any person in its absolute discretion, including for health and safety, licensing reasons or where a Ticket is void.

6.4              Where DHP is the Owner:

6.4.1                DHP reserves the right to refuse admission of any person to the Event if in the reasonable opinion of DHP admission might be a risk to the safety of other attendees and/or affect the enjoyment of the other attendees and/or the running of the Event, for example if the person appears to be under the influence of alcohol, drugs and/or is acting aggressively;

6.4.2                DHP may eject from the Venue any person who fails to comply with the Terms and Conditions or who in the sole opinion of DHP represents a security risk, nuisance or annoyance to the staging of the Event;

 

 

On the Queen's Hall Website all I could find was the following - but I also note that at the top of this page is says we must abide by these to use the website but nothing about entering the venue ?

 

Quote

By using www.thequeenshall.net ("the website") you agree to accept the following Terms and Conditions and Disclaimers. If you do not accept these Terms and Conditions you must immediately stop using the website.

Terms & Conditions | The Queen's Hall (thequeenshall.net)

Quote

We have the right to terminate your access to any or all of the services at any time, without notice, for any reason, including without limitation, breach of these Terms and Conditions

Quote

The Queen’s Hall reserves the right to refuse admission. We also reserve the right to remove people from the venue without a refund in circumstances such as the refusal of security checks or if staff consider your behaviour is affecting other people’s enjoyment.

 

2 hours ago, Ethel Street said:

Did they advertise the concert saying expressly that the bar would be open? If not you have no grounds for asking for compensation because the bar wasn't open. 

On this page it says the bar opens one hour before the show starts but it doesn't say anything about it closing after the show starts ?

Bar | The Queen's Hall (thequeenshall.net)

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I appreciate why you are annoyed but legally you are clutching at straws. The t&c you quote give them the discretion to remove you from the venue without compensation if staff consider your behaviour is affecting other people's enjoyment.

That is what they thought and they removed you. Forget it and move on because your chance of proving in court that they acted unreasonably is zero. You said yourself that you were calling out between songs asking why the bar was closed. 

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I did nothing wrong - They are seriously out of order - I will not be let this go

If all I've got are straws I will clutch them until they refund me

Do I have a straw to clutch with the bar opening statement or not?

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I will

But I hear what you are saying

What if I had a mental condition - like Autism - hypothetically spit balling there would that improve my case ?

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they don't need any reason to eject you.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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But if it turns out to be discrimination then that changes things

If I have video evidence of being threatened by one of them also

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Even if a hypothetical person could prove  that they had a mental health condition that caused them to shout out in performances, and that this was serious enough to be a disability under the Equality Act 2010, it still wouldn't mean they couldn't remove you.

Are you such a person, with full supporting medical evidence from a specialist mental health Consultant? And you had told the venue of your disability so they knew you were disabled when they removed you?

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I'm starting to wonder - all the pointers are there through my whole life

I guess the moral of the story is for that from now on I don't go out anywhere socially anymore - I'll just live as a hermit which I pretty much do anyway most of the time these days

I've got tickets for a gig in Amsterdam next year so I'm sure the people there won't be as uptight as this dump - going forward though I'm really done with British culture and people - just avoid them and I won't be further disappointed going forward

Maybe one day I can go and live in Happy Holland again..

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1 hour ago, whiteadder said:

I'm really done with British culture and people - just avoid them and I won't be further disappointed going forward

that's your problem not ours nor that of a performer that hears you repeatedly shout out something that's of no importance disrupting their performance ..... 

Quote

I think as all I did was call out in between songs something about why the bar was closed at the start of the performance

your moral compass needs re aligning p'haps...

.this thinking didn't come on beginning in 2016 or 2020 did it......:whistle:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I don't want to listen to your put downs any more dx - I'll just take a pass on this forum now

Thanks to all others for their advice but the sort of commentary from above is exactly the problem with the attitude of people in this country and I'm sick of it

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