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    • a card should be 16 digits...urm... note your dates above please. do not miss them no matter what happens  ......................... pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .. get a CCA Request running to the claimant . https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/ .. Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed . get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] ... https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ . .use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt or Util debt]  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ on BOTH type your name ONLY Do Not sign anything .do not ever use or give an email . you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork  you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count] ..............  
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Northamton, civil national business centre Name of the Claimant ? PRA Group Uk Portfolios ltd. How many defendant's  joint or self ? self Date of issue –  21 May 24 date of AOS - 07-06-2024 date for filing defence by - 21-06-2024 Particulars of Claim 1. The claimant claims the sum of £5600 for an outstanding debt owed. 2. On Mar 2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank Uk PLC for a credit card under reference ( 11 digit ref ). 3. on Mar 21 the defendant defaulted on the agreement  with an outstanding balance of £5600. 4. On Aug 21 the debt £5600 was assigned to PRA Group (UK) Limited, who itself assigned the debt to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd on Dec 23. 5. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property act 1925. 6. The claimant has instructed PRA Group (UK) Limited to act on its behalf in the recovery of the outstanding debt and to pursue litigation on its behalf. AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £5600 What is the total value of the claim? £6100  Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No - just emails threatening action   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? no Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? credit card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? before - in 2000   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? I don't recall - I suspect post / online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? am awaiting access - but I suspect it is    Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. assigned - debt purchaser has issued the claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Pretty certain - Yes   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? pretty certain - Yes   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? there's been gaps - they went very quiet  Why did you cease payments? Covid lockdowns  What was the date of your last payment? i thought it was 2020 - they say 2021 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? no Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? no
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Backdoor CCJ - Credit Card Debt.


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Hi all

Small bit of background:
Not a fan ot a huge fan of debt collecting companies, the way they bend and break the law, and the way they feed of people’s bones.
Regarding letters over credit card debt, I’ve always been told & have seen posts that invariably say “Ignore these letters”, “Do not write or telephone them, as this means you are acknowledging the debt”.

Also - I’ve always “understood” that unless it’s a local authority (parking fine / council tax etc) or a government (tax etc) issue, then debt collecting companies are sort of toothless: credit card debt is unsecured and - as it’s not a government debt, or a car that can be towed away - the credit card companies don’t have a leg to stand on.


I mean, they can get a CCJ against you and mess up your credit rating, but that’s it really.


if we assume that somebody doesn’t mind a bad credit rating - that’s the worst that can happen.

Thats what I thought.

But then I had a letter from the “County Court Business Centre”, St Katherine House, NN1 2LH (strangely, I live quite near this court), discussing a court judgement. The amount is around £1,800.
Part of the text said that “if you ignore this order your goods may be removed and sold”. (I noted the word "may").

For some reason, right or wrong, I ignored this letter.

Then I got a letter from “Mortimer Clark Solicitors”, referring to the “Judgement”.
The letter says,


"We still have not received any payment proposals from you so we are instructed to apply a warrant of control to be made against you should you fail to make any satisfactory payment proposals within X days...


...If an acceptable payment is offers not made, an application will be made to the County Court to instruct a bailiff to seek payment from you, which would ultimately include attending your property to remove goods to auction” etc.

Now I feel that this isn’t true, and they can’t send bailiffs for simple credit card debt (it’s unsecured - the credit card took a risk), and that bailiffs (for simple card debt, anyway) have no right to enter your property.


Credit card companies (and these debt collecting companies that buy up debt from them) - they’re just private companies, and they don’t have the power of local government, say for council tax etc.. They are all bark and no bite.



Am I wrong?
Setting aside any moral judgement of me, can I continue to ignore this?


Thanks for reading!

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sounds like to me they've got a backdoor ccj at an old address for an old debt, that because you moved and did not inform your debt owners of the moved, they automatically got a default judgement, which means yes they can request to the judge that he sends county court bailiffs to enforce the debt.

 

thats the only time bailiffs can ever be involved in consumer credit debts.

 

so have you checked your credit file?

bet there a ccj of recent ?

 

dx

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Backdoor CCJ - Credit Card Debt.

Cheers

I was abroad for a few years and the letters just were redirected but frankly ignored.  

 

The weird thing is that posts in forums like those so often tell people not to contact debt collecting companies over small "unsecured" loans, so in scenarios where a debt is old and statute-barred, contacting them just "starts the debt off" again as your fresh contact constitutes acknowledgment of the debt etc.. apparently.........
So many times have I seen posts that say "ignore them"....


Still, I believe that we should always be aware of our rights and stand up for them, and bailiffs can't just randomly "enforce" - break people's doors down for small amounts of money.... well, in some cases (I looked it up), unless: 


the debtor has breached a valid controlled goods agreement, or:
a warrant authorising reasonable force has been issued by the court

 

As it's unlikely either of those 2 things will come to pass, couldn't I just ignore it again?

I'm not Al Capone. It's about £1800...


Do you see me doing porridge for this?

Should I just finally get in touch with these people?

 

Thank you 👍

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listen please get your info up asap you are wasting valuable time.

 

once a debt is statute barred nothing can unbar it not even a judge but that doesnt protect from backdoor ccj's as you've witnesses first hand.

northants is a bulk court ,.. we call them roboclaims, no human see looks or checks anything.

 

and you writing can never reset SB unless you write specifically stating i owe you £xxxx for xxx debt and sign the letter.

 

you say you've read lots but sadly are not correctly understanding most things.

 

like 

On 27/03/2023 at 18:26, augustusprime said:

he debtor has breached a valid controlled goods agreement, or:
a warrant authorising reasonable force has been issued by the court

crap on any consumer credit debt unless you let them in and they make a list you sign it.

there is never a right of forced entry on consumer debt unless the above exists.

 

On 27/03/2023 at 18:26, augustusprime said:

Do you see me doing porridge for this?

wherever did you get this from too?

debt is not a criminal offence in the uk...

 

 

so much utter bs and thats why you are in this situation..:frusty:

 

On 27/03/2023 at 18:26, augustusprime said:

The weird thing is that posts in forums like those so often tell people not to contact debt collecting companies over small "unsecured" loans, so in scenarios where a debt is old and statute-barred, contacting them just "starts the debt off" again as your fresh contact constitutes acknowledgment of the debt etc.. apparently.........
So many times have I seen posts that say "ignore them"....

 

because the posts are by DCA's hijack forums...not here!!

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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22 hours ago, dx100uk said:

."so much utter bs"

 

Thanks for the reply....

As you can see my post is full of questions, so I never claim to know anything.

Even when I said  I’ve always “understood” something, you can see that I used quotation marks, to emphasise the fact I'm probably wrong.
The whole reason for posting is asking for help and asking questions.

Advice is what I'm here for.

Thanks again 🙂

 

 

Edited by augustusprime
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well instead of pontificating 

give us the info we need.

 

go get your credit file

does the ccj show?

 

dx

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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23 hours ago, dx100uk said:

please get your info up asap

 

 

Sorry - I thought you meant photos of the correspondence I've had from the DCA. Was just getting them.

I'll look at Experian or whoever and find out.

 

Thanks again for your help...

 

 

 

 

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Yup this has happened to me, several times. Likely you have a CCJ, just sign up for Credit Karma, and you can find out what CCJ's are showing in the 'public' section'. It will take 5 minutes.

 

Likely you will be able to pay off in affordable installments after submitting income and expenses. Check what other defaults and CCJs you have and contact all debtors with your current address details in writing.

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Yes, clearly they used this back-door CCJ technique, as I checked with Credit Karma and the CCJ is there.
Thank you London1971


Going to deal with it and pay off in instalments anyway as I’m felling a bit more flush with a new (boring) office job.


Is it bad to telephone them?

Is writing better?
Also - are these “debt management” companies any good?

Would Citizens' Advice help with how to apporach the company, or should I just call them?

 

Thank you Again

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2 hours ago, augustusprime said:

Going to deal with it and pay off in instalments anyway as I’m felling a bit more flush with a new (boring) office job. - wont remove the CCJ, thats there for 6yrs paid or not paying or not.


Is it bad to telephone them? very ...never talk about debt on the phone..they lie!!

 

Is writing better? only ever do it in writing. but you dont HAVE to pay it at all.


Also - are these “debt management” companies any good? nope total waste of money!!

 

Would Citizens' Advice help with how to approach the company, or should I just call them? no and no.

 

Thank you Again

 

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

As above, never talk by phone, don't bother with any debt management companies.  You probably missed the court letter sent after the CCJ was issued, asking as for the sum of £50 per month to be paid, that's what I did, for me it was an affordable sum that paid off a similar size CCJ to yours in a few years.

 

If you can afford that I would just write back to them proposing £50ppm, which is what the judge ordered anyway alternatively just fill in the I and E sheet explaining how much you can afford.

 

As time moves on the CCJ will become less and less of a burden on your credit file, after a few years it will have minimal impact, so none of this is really world ending. It's just a good lesson to keep all creditors informed of your current address.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Got it dx100uk --------- That’s very kind of you --------- I appreciate the advice. I didn’t think for one minute that the CCJ would somehow go away. Have accepted that messing about and forgetting the debt has led to this……..
Thanks again dx100uk

👍👍👍

Yes London1971, I really didn't need to get into this situation as I could have kept them informed of my whereabouts and not just run away......
Great advice again - one more thing --------- do I need a letter template for writing to them?

Thanks again London1971

👍👍👍

 

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