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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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UKPC ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - vehicle on site during restricted no parking period - Rom Valley Retail Park, Romford *** Claim Dismissed with Costs awarded***


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Word files contain the writer's personal details, so I've converted the Word file in your post to PDF.

Here is a new version with suggested changes in red.  I've swapped stuff about.  I think it makes more sense if you argue (a) the signs weren't there, then (b) even if they had been there the driver would have complied with the T&Cs shown.

Supplemental WS with suggested changes.pdf

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The Google Street view I saw was done in 2018. So they could have added them before your event. You could put them to strict proof of when they were erected .Are you sure those signs were not there on the day you were parked. 

The contract is not valid as there is no proof that it was actually signed and by whom as the signatory's have been redacted and there is no proof from Robert Irving Burns ltd that Portland could sign on their behalf. [The contract is between RIB and not Portland estates]

Some signs are prohibitory and cannot offer a contract. If the car park was closed any car there after hours was unauthorised.............

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Thank you FTMDave.  I'm happy to make your suggested changes.  I'll wait a day or 2 to see if any of the team have any other suggestions or feedback.  Do I then just email a copies to both UKPC and the court?

Lookinforinfo - Unfortunately I am not sure if the signs have since been changed and cannot recall seeing any on the night as it was dark.   

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Well you could say that you have pictures where the signs were not on the wall where you parked so would require strict proof of when they were erected .

But in any case it was dark so even if a sign was there you didn't see as it was not illuminated.

Little point in not having signs that can be seen at night though it obviously makes it easier to issue PCNs and pursue motorists claiming they have breached non contractual contracts whilst breaching those same motorist's GDPR.

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Dave,

Section 12 seems to be a bit of a dangling limb on it's own, with no reference or explanation about the "breach" of parking out of hours.

Also, rather than draw any attention to the specific 22:00 to 08:00 wording on their "draft signage", how about a slight reshuffle ...?

11. The claimant provides 2 copies of the signage on this site. One of the signs shows a
time restriction of 2 hours, the other sign shows a parking restriction of 3 hours.

12. The driver stayed under 2 hours so even had the signs been visible the driver would
have respected the Claimant's terms & conditions.

Are the above strictly needed? The claimant has made no references to an overstay, just "out of hours".

13. The claimant also states in paragraph 8 of the witness statement:

"On 17 March 2023 a vehicle with registration number was recorded as having
breached the terms and conditions of parking. The driver of the aforementioned vehicle was
in breach by virtue of parking on site out of hours."

14. The claimants Exhibit BA/2 also does not specify any times for "out of hours parking". Breach of a non-existent terms is not possible.

 

Or something along those lines?

Screws up the the paragraph numberig a bit though...

 

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Nick - point taken.  Thanks.  New version attached with changes in red.

wv600 - I would send it off ASAP, and yes by e-mail both to the court and to UKPC.  That's because the point is not really to convince the judge, in fact judges don't have to accept SWSs and may well disallow it.  The point is to turn the heat on UKPC.

The sooner UKPC get it the sooner they will wet their underclothes and the sooner they will discontinue and the sooner you will be able to plan your holiday activities ... well that's the idea anyway 😉

Supplemental WS with suggested changes - version 2.pdf

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Thanks all.

Just by way of an update, I've emailed the supplemental WS to both the court and UKPC on Sunday evening.  

Had the following autoreply from UKPC, so not sure if anyone would look at it before Thu, is it worth calling them to see if they have received it?

Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email. Please be advised that we aim to respond within 28 days. Please note that we cannot accept appeals against parking charges via this inbox and the opportunity to appeal this parking charge has expired.
Many Thanks,
Litigation Team
UK Parking Control Ltd

 

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not your problem, you've sent it thats all you have to do.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

Couple of quick questions for the team please:

1)  How do I address the judge?

2) What do I say if asked who the driver was?  Note I have never admitted to being the driver.

3) Is there any way to check if the hearing is still going ahead?

I haven't heard from UKPC after sending the supplemental WS, so assuming I'm going to court tomorrow.   

Many thanks

Edited by wv600
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1) You can call them judge

2) I would say something to the line of "The Claimant needs to prove I was driving. I don't accept or deny being driving."

3) Yes I will see if I can find out for you now

 

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2 hours ago, wv600 said:

2) What do I say if asked who the driver was?  Note I have never admitted to being the driver.

you refer them to your defence and ws whenever asked direct questions.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded.

Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure. 

I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal. They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!  Ended up having to change my flight, but the costs awarded softens the blow.

Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed.

Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made.

Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded.

Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures!

I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts.

All the best!

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - vehicle on site during restricted no parking period - Rom Valley Retail Park, Romford, RM7 0AF **WON+Costs**

its typical by default if one party does not turn up they lose.

well done 

please consider a small donation

we are free

we don't get paid

but try telling the sites server hosters or ISP

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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They didn't turn up because they knew they would lose so they saved the cost of sending a brief saving them a couple of hundred pounds at least.

But still a big relief for you now that it's all over . So congratulations plus you can enjoy your trip that much more. 

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  • AndyOrch changed the title to UKPC ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - vehicle on site during restricted no parking period - Rom Valley Retail Park, Romford *** Claim Dismissed with Costs awarded***

Congratulations a well deserved win.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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