Hospital Bugs...a living nightmare

[bridle]

[/u]

 

If only! They don't have enough isolation beds to cope. Many MRSA patients are mixed in with other ones on open wards helping it to spread

 

That is why they have side rooms and if there are lots of patients with mrsa they can do a ward with just MRSA patients

[JonCris]

Don't care

 

Myself I was in hospital less than 1 year ago all the side wards full & 4 MRSA patients on an open ward. They tried to keep it quiet but one of the nurses told us because she felt we should not be put in danger

[fairclaire]

I have to agree with Joncris totally.

 

I was not tested in any way and the beds situation was so bad that a crowd of us were stood shoulder to shoulder in a tiny waiting room to wait on the beds. These beds were still full of patients from the morning round of surgery.

 

It was very much a case of one out of bed and the next one in. It was that quick.

 

Even though I was originally admitted for day surgery, I ended up staying longer. At no time was I ever isolated in any way and indeed even told what was wrong with me. I had to wait until I was discharged and could get some info from my GP.

 

Maybe I was unlucky and some hospitals deal with this alot better than the one I was in....I hope so.

 

As for Jeremy Kyle...Battleaxe. I agree with everything you said.....but! Still made me feel quite normal and even superior sometimes:).

 

Jon I hope you are getting better and if so I hope that continues. I found it a real shock to my system just how slow a process it is! never having had anything more serious than chickenpox in my life.

 

I continue to work reduced hours after catching a virus a few weeks ago and landing straight back on my a** again. Sometimes feels like climbing a big ladder that you can't see the top of and keep slipping off every now and again.

 

Take care

 

Claire

[holamiga]

I started my nurse training in 1953 in a hospital treating all forms of tuberculosis, and retired as a Nurse Tutor in 1994. My early experiences taught me very thoroughly about preventing cross infection. I nursed a patient with typhoid fever in an open ward, it didn't spread !!!! Since then I have seen much evidence of 'throwing out the baby with the bath water'. The rot started with contract cleaning!!! formerly domestic staff were fiercely protective of their ward's reputation for cleanliness. I fought in vain against many changes i.e. uniforms washed at home (saved money) worn outside the hospital ??? hair flowing freely (saved money on caps) jewelry worn, watches/rings (hoard pathogens). Staff should have shower facilites and clean uniforms daily or more often as required. So many industries have superior protocols in this respect especially in covering hair (healthy source of pathogens).

Of course rapid patient turnover increases workload but staffing is not commensurate with this. I worked on the Project 2000 curriculum for nursing and one of the government promises was to create the ratio of 2 qualified nurses to 1 unqualified from the longstanding reverse IT NEVER HAPPENED !!!!! much of the 'hospital acquired infection' problem is about resources and well as the failure to apply (understand ?) basic principles of social, domestic and aseptic hygiene.

I watch TV 'hospital' programmes in a state of great tension, they could be used to GREAT effect on how to encourage maximum rates of cross infection....

I have had my share of surgery on the NHS in a blythe spirit but now exceeding reluctant to sign up for the joint surgery I need. If I do decide the first thing I will ask for will be details of the infection rates. It isn't right that people should have the extra burden of worry about acquiring an infection. My advice would be have a notebook and pen at the ready and make note of the answers you get to your questions IT WILL FOCUS MINDS and please don't feel intimidated...the NHS is a service you pay for.

Good luck everyone.

[JOSH_IOU]

You can not prevent diseases unless you are in a disease controlled enviroment.

 

IF you are the health expert you say your are you should no that.

[JonCris]

You can not prevent diseases unless you are in a disease controlled enviroment.

 

IF you are the health expert you say your are you should no that.

 

What does that mean exactly!

 

Of course the poster is an expert anyone with a brain can tell that from the content of their post

[holamiga]

jamesrap you puzzle me...I WAS talking about creating disease controlled environments.

Thanks JonCris, for your support and understanding my points. I am the first to admit that I am not as up to date as I would be if still working BUT I do still read and have contact with working colleagues still in teaching and they are in despair.

 

Holamiga

[demon_x_slash]

Don't feed the troll, guys

[johnyboy]

First of all let me start by saying that I think that doctors and nurses, ancillary staff, cleaners, etc all do a wonderful job or try and do a wonderful job within the constraints imposed upon them.

 

I have friends and family working in hospitals from doctors, to nurses, to porters and they all do the job because they care and want to make a difference.

 

My concern is that these people are not being given the support to do their jobs properly and the scary thing is that their is no simple solution to fix it.

 

There is a lot of risk to patients from the new hospital superbugs, but this risk is not just restricted to patients, it is also a risk to nurses, doctors, all hospital staff and their own families, children and elderly parents. The hospital staff know this just as much as patients do. And they are equally powerless in this. They can be as clean as they can, but any chain is only as strong as its weakest link and so they are just as vulnerable as patients.

 

I had never heard of MRSA until 11 years ago when a relative of mine asked me to look it up. At that time, MRSA was not the common term it is now, and the internet revealed that in nearly all cases death rates in hospitals were extremely high where MRSA was involved.

 

I was asked to look into MRSA because this relative was treating a patient with MRSA in a care home, as passed onto them by the NHS, and they were not happy with the guidelines that were given.

 

This nurse wanted to isolate the patient, wanted to introduce guidelines to all staff on hygiene and cleanliness and was threatened with disciplinary action for going overboard.

 

Now, ten years later, we all know she was right.

 

I guess that what I am trying to say is that MRSA has been around for a long time and people on the front line are just as scared as we are and are trying to deal with it. In a lot of situations hospital staff are gagged by loss of job, loss of pension, etc if they speak out. Certainly this relative of mine was 'persuaded' to keep quiet.

 

There are ways to work together with these staff who are probably just as frustrated with the situation as we are. Certainly if one of my family was exposed to MRSA, instead of blaming the nurses I would be asking them what if anything was being done and try and isolate the weak link in the chain. Then I would ask them what I could do - after all, I am not gagged!

 

I do recall offering to buy a bed and pay for an agency nurse for one hospital when another relative could not be treated because there were not enough beds or nurses available. Obviously, I told the hospital manager, I would also call the papers.

 

Perhaps, we could do something similar with hospital cleanliness, to highlight the failings. Instead of blaming the front line.

[poppynurse]

Johnyboy - thank you!

[holamiga]

Hi

 

It just occurred to me... I'll bet that the millions the government is going to spend on replacing Trident would pay for a state of the art isolation unit for every hospital and a rapid method of identifying the organism

( exciting research is getting close to replacing the time consuming swab and cultivation technique) Then all people a) entering hospital for treatment b) leaving after treatment c) visitors for immno supressed patients and infants with immature immunity d) all people in close contact with patients could be TESTED and appropriate protocols set in place. There will always be the necessity to manage infections, we never know what ingenious organisms are waiting in 'the wings).

 

Holamiga

[smellycats]

Hiya!!

 

Was very sorry to hear that you got a healthcare infection! I am a first year student nurse and I get the importance of hygiene drummed into me as it should be!! For anyone going into hospital...you have the right to ask if the nurse or the doctor has washed their hands and all healthcare workers should be carrying their personal alcohol gel which is extremely good at decontaminating hands. Please ALWAYS ask if you do not see your healthcare worker not use this...you have the right and I think that patients should be made aware of this!! I do hope that you are better now and am sorry that so many of you have suffered because of poor hygiene! I wish the best to all of you and please remember...if you don't see your nurse or doctor either wash their hands or use alcohol gel before they come to you then ask them to do it in front of you!! All the best

[DollyDayDream]

I have just wandered into this thread! While hand washing is a vital part of infection control it would help in keeping MRSA infections down if ALL patients and staff had nasal swabs taken, as the infection is often carried in our noses. I have recently had a knee replacement and was saddened to see how nursing care has changed. It is caused by the system of form filling and bean counting. I trained as a nurse in the 60s and then was a Health Visitor until I retired. I used to have students seconded to spend time with me for their community experience and I loved having them. Most of them were so keen to nurse, but felt frustrated by the system.

DDD.

[bornagainthrifty]

Call me a cynic but NHS institutions will NEVER swab their staff for MRSA. The vast majority will come back positive and they'll all be sent home for a few days whilst they treat themselves with creams and washes. - The cost of temporary replacement staff would cripple even the odd hospital that isn't in debt.

 

The only answer is good hygeine, alcohol hand rubs are common place where I work and they do kill most bugs, but, and it's a big but, Hand washing with soap and water and a good technique (Yes there is a proper technique) is the best way. Some bugs are not destroyed by alcohol hand gels.

 

Ask your healthcare professional if they have washed their hands before they touch you, if they practise good hygenie they won't be embarrased or offended.

[demon_x_slash]

Yep, my granddad taught me how to wash my hands properly with soap when I was three, and I still remember; nails, every finger one by one, top to bottom, palms, wrists, rub as hard as you can even though it tickles... sorry, OT, just a nice memory

[borisbeaver]

I also work for the NHS, and I have to say that the biggest source of MRSA and NORWOLK are visitors and patients.

 

Many of these people already have the infections before they come into hospital. At my workplace, there are now hand washes at every entrance to a clinical area and also at the bed sides, and there are reported incidents where patients have asked/reminded the clinical staff to disinfect their hands before examination. It's a struggle, and its a long way to go.

 

We did have an incident where one visitor came in and vomitted & deficated where she stood. The mess was everywhere.

 

Just imagine having to clear this lot up.

 

Bring back set visiting times.

[bornagainthrifty]

I'd agree to some extent visitors bring infection, but it is poor policy/enforcement of said policy/ poor practice that aids the spread of infection.

Some Hospitals are taking drastic measures to reduce Health care associated infections (HCAI's - sorry for the abbreviation but I can't be *rsed typing that out every time)

 

This is some of the information form an article in this weeks nursing times:

 

"Weekly data was collected relating to:

• Numbers of HCAIs in all clinical areas as indentified by the infection control nurse

• Hourly handwashing rates"

"Handwashing rates were reached by:

• Weighing all the soap dispensers on a weekly basis........

• Number of nursing hours worked in each week

• The total amount of soap used was divided by the number of nursing hours to give the number of average handwashes carried out per hour."

If you're interested the full article is at nursingtimes.net

 

This strikes me as being completely the wrong way of going about it, impractical and time consuming. It only takes one member of staff to face disciplinary action for failing to wash thier hands for the word to spread across a hospital and suddenly everyone falls into line.

 

Just my opinion!

 

p.s. we already have set visiting times at my place of work - not for infection control reasons tho'

[empowered]

Have just discovered this thread and didn't really want to post but it is really relevant to me at the moment. My elderly mother of 81, had to go into St Richards at Chichester into ICU for a suspected chest infection where she was given antibiotics - 4 days later she developed excruciating diaorhea and pain but was told as there was no chest infection, she could go home. That was a month ago - my father called in the GP who took swabs and said she had C.diff. He is 80 and has constantly nursed her 24 hours a day with no outside help - in that time she has not eaten and is being given different types of antibiotics which seem to have no effect - I feel she only has a few weeks left if that. If the new treatment has had no effect by this Tuesday then she will be taken into the local cottage hospital which she is quite happy about. She won't hear about us suing the hospital as the staff were very caring and responsible to her. However, when I visited one day, the ward floor and curtain rails etc were cleaned twice in 2 hours - I was impressed. However, I noticed that NOBODY went into the patients loo - when I went there (directed by a nurse!) I noticed an old dressing in the shower cubicle and feel that this is probably where she caught the infection. Surely cleaning should be undertaken in places where bodily fluids are excreted rather than making such a public show of cleaning in public places? Sorry for the rant but I feel so frustrated and upset at the pain she is in and the way she is going to die - and all because of a bug when she has survived many other traumas in the past.

[mree]

Call me a cynic but NHS institutions will NEVER swab their staff for MRSA.

 

Sorry to disagree, but Newcastle NHS Trust DO swab staff for MRSA!

 

I also want to agree with the other student nurse who posted about hand-washing/infection control - I'm also a student nurse and I have to agree, this subject is examined in minute detail from a different angle in every lecture and practical session. We have VERY strict rules on hair, nails, jewellery, where uniforms can be worn etc., and not adhering to these rules could see us thrown off the course.

 

It really upsets me when people blame overworked, underpaid NHS staff for the spread of these infections - in short, the ones to blame are the government. It was their idea to bring in contract cleaners, they set targets and budgets, etc. etc. etc.

 

And jamesrap - have you ever even SEEN a hospital?

[bingolass68]

hi i came across this web site while searching hospital bugs as my father has just died and although he had had a massive stroke,i think the bugs he caught did not help c-diff being one.

I cannot fault the staff that cared for him and us as a family and i wont go on as still feeling raw, as this was only a week ago there were times when we went to visit and there was rubbish left on floor from various sealed tube feeders etc.

The other thing we saw when he was on wards was other relatives going round other beds not just the ones they were visiting, dad was in a ward of 4 that had infections there were the odd staff that didnt wear aprons or do hands which we did ask about/mention.

But the thing that got me is seeing staff and visitors going through main doors without doing gel for hands and going out in their uniforms (i now this is standered now not the nurses fault) when there were clear notices up to say there was an infection control in force!!!!

Sorry for any typos and for saying what i saw but as i said this iks still raw for me

[mree]

Really sorry for your loss x

[phoebesmum]

I know how you feel, I work in a hospital and am due to have surgery on my knee, I am incontact with MRSA everday, and at the min I am scared ****less of catching something.

[electric lemon]

Ha Ha!!

 

And I can remember laughing at one of Graham Nortons shows where there was a nurse showing his certificate for Failing to wash his hands when he was doing his training!

 

Just goes to show, eh.

 

I work for the NHS & I once pulled a consultant up for not washing his hands & ignoring a sign that clearly stated no through access to another ward due to hideous D&V.

 

He ripped into me stating that I was being disrespectful, rude etc & that I would be disciplined for my behaviour! MY behaviour!!

 

Unbelievable!

 

I told him that I was not in the wrong & would continue with 'my behaviour' for as long as it took and for as long as it took for people that I worked with to show respect for these awful bugs!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!

 

I will say this though.

 

In my own professional experience, on the whole, there IS NOT enough care taken generally to halt the spread of MRSA & the like.

 

In Denmark, Norway & some other european countries the MRSA rates are a BIG FAT ZERO, because all patients are screened as soon as they are admitted & have private rooms. NHS take note & a leaf out of their book!

 

Sorry, if some people dont like what I say!

[chocolatte]

Lets not forget our visitors who come into the hospital bringing with them bugs, and sit on our beds, hug us and kiss us.

As these bugs and micro organisms are invisible to the naked eye we are not aware of them, so don't let people sit on your bed, and hug you when you are in hospital, I know it's difficult, but this could also save your life.

[tbell]

I know how you feel, I work in a hospital and am due to have surgery on my knee, I am incontact with MRSA everday, and at the min I am scared ****less of catching something.

 

I am also a nurse... and having been admitted over the past 2 years once for a minor op... and then to deliver my 5th baby... I was also scared s..........

 

Was an absolute relief to come out MRSA free

 

Sad but true

 

tbell