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Unpaid TFL PCN, Potential enforcement action. Ready for the fight.


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I really am confused by your many references to legislation and in particular, whether it even applies to you (which it mostly doesn't).

For example, in relation to Para 60 of the National Standards, (Power to entry by force), this has no relevance in your particular case. 

Your reference to Regulation 9 is misleading as it appears to give the impression that a bailiff cannot take control of goods after a period of 12 moths beginning with the date of the Notice  of Enforcement. A warrant may be extended for a FURTHER 12 month period. 

Your reference to Part 75.7 (10) would also not apply in your case.

Most importantly, can you please provide a link to the Enforcement Services Agreement that you say originates from the Local Government Association.

Once again, you are referring to legislation that is not relevant to your particular circumstances. 

In conducting your 'research', you appear to be confusing the enforcement of Magistrate Court FINES with the enforcement of a debt for an unpaid Transport for London contravention. To clarify, none of the above references apply to your case. 

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i was merely pointing out, a debt registered with the TEC will be enforced by “enforcement agents” not County Court bailiffs or High Court enforcement officers.

I only referred to para 60 as an example, to the fact that only County Court bailiffs or High Court enforcement officers have a power to use reasonable force.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

I know it has no relevance to my case, that’s the point I was making - taking forced entry out of the equation.

 In regards to regulation 9, I don’t believe what I wrote to be misleading at all, it clearly states - Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3) the enforcement agent may not take control of goods of the debtor after the expiry of a period of 12 months beginning with the date of notice of enforcement.

If there is no extension then this paragraph stands.  

para (2) is not relevant

Para (3) & (4) an extension will only be granted if - (a), on application by the enforcement agent or the creditor (b), on one occasion; and – (c) if the court is satisfied that the applicant has reasonable grounds for not taking control of goods of the debtor during the period referred to under paragraph (1).  

So not misleading, the notice of enforcement will expire if no application is made or granted.

 Part 75.7 (10) I will take a closer look (thankyou).

I know, I only brought the matter up to debunk dx100uk statements.

I can assure you its not me confusing  enforcement of Magistrate Court FINES with the enforcement of a debt for an unpaid Transport for London contravention, It was dx100uk. 

I was replying to dx100uk in regards to the statement he made in post (#4) and later (#6)

 Quote:   The next step is the council could apply to a magistrates court to grant forced entry,  post #4

the bailiff does not apply for it?

Quote:   The Issuing Authority can take the case to magistrates for further enforcement        post #6

    So you can clearly see I’m not the one confused.

 But I must disagree with you on the following….

Paragraph 18a of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 is relevant to my case.

It Cleary states in…

Schedule 12- Section 17 - General powers to use reasonable forcewhere paragraph 18 [ F3, 18A, 19 or 19A] applies, an enforcement agent may if necessary use reasonable force to enter premises or to do anything for which the entry is authorised.

 Schedule 12 – Section 18A(1) - This paragraph applies if these conditions are met— (d) the sum so payable is not a traffic contravention debt.

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On 24/11/2022 at 18:01, DTP77 said:

once the notice of enforcement has expired the bailiff fees no longer stand.

yes they do, where does anything say they are removed after the NOA expires or any 12mts extension applied for expires?

ok i might not be a master on every nuance esp re complicated bailiffs issues that are very rare here, but at some point in the legal process, simply ignoring a bailiff and their fees just doesn't make the issue go away and things get magically reset to a lower figure?

surely that's not good idea and there must be further actions TfL/Bailiff can take. it can't end good.

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014

Recovery of fees for enforcement-related services from the debtor

4.—(1) — The enforcement agent may recover from the debtor the fees indicated in the Schedule in accordance with this regulation and regulations 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, by reference to the stage, or stages, of enforcement for which enforcement-related services have been supplied.

 Fees and disbursements not recoverable where enforcement process ceases

17.—(1) The enforcement agent may not recover fees or disbursements from the debtor in relation to any stage of enforcement undertaken at a time when the relevant enforcement power has ceased to be exercisable.

Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013

Regulation 9(1), Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), the enforcement agent may not take control of goods of the debtor after the expiry of a period of 12 months beginning with the date of notice of enforcement

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Under the FOI, I have requested a copy of The Enforcement Services Agreement that outlines terms to which TFL expect their appointed enforcement company/agent to follow when collecting debts on their behalf.  

But let’s be honest,  90-days  180-days does not really matter as I've already pointed out (with the legislation) the enforcement power and bailiff fees expire 12-months from the date the Notice of Enforcement is issued if no application is made to a court (not the TEC) for a further 12-month extension. 

And as the legislation’s states, any 12-month extension can only be applied for and granted on one occasion only and the court has to be satisfied (see the legislation) before granting such an application.   

 

 

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  • 11 months later...

open

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Update.

After a number of visits from the enforcement agents. I stood my ground and ignored their threats. I received this letter from Marston’s. They intend to return the warrant to their client (TFL).

So, looks like I was right after all @Bailiff Advice.  Lets see what happens next?

Either way the bailiff fees are no longer enforceable!

 

2023-10-04 Marstons returning warrant to TfL.pdf

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