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Should we trust Sunak or the next PM to fix the Country's problems? (title revised 24/10/22)


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and in addition to

13 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

as HB has raised - what memorials, and precisely what 'antisemetic'  slogans are you referring @theoldrouge?

and who supposedly did it?

 

and Lets remind ourselves further of the responses:

additionally @theoldrouge despite you being quick to complain about some as yet undefined claims of 'antisemitism' on monuments let alone actioned by anyone other than the far right rabble?

 

we haven't seen you condemn the clear and widely evidenced disruption and violence by the far right

actually at the Cenotaph


Have we?

 

Interesting that the Torygraph (as an example) claim 'antisemitic banners' with an embedded link in apparent rabble rousing dog whistles - which unsurprising changes to stating 'Pro-Palestine banners' when you follow the link

- disingenuous is the polite term isnt it?

Dishonest rabble rousing dog whistles is perhaps more honest eh?

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Clearly none of you bothered to read the link to the daily mail comment from last Thursday 
So here it is in simple black and white in order to make it easier to understand 
 

Erected to comfort grieving families, Britain's war memorials signal the nation's determination to honour those who made the supreme sacrifice for our freedom.

So how sickeningly disrespectful for a seething pro-Palestinian mob to desecrate the Royal Artillery Memorial in Hyde Park on Wednesday by clambering all over it.

Was it really possible these flag-waving thugs did not realise the profound offence they would cause? 

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and what about your unsupported claims of antisemitism - by other than those actually by the far right rabble @theoldrouge

and what about the far right rabble at the Cenotaph throwing bottles, punches and barriers at the police and trying to attack peaceful demonstrators- real evidence of crimes, violence and disrespect for the Cenotaph?

"Was it really possible these flag-waving (+bottle throwing) thugs did not realise the profound offence they would cause?"

- we are still waiting for you to condemn the evidenced far right criminality, violence and disrespect at the Cenotaph eh? @theoldrouge

 

the pro-peace march didnt go near the cenotaph

 

"Posts on social media have misleadingly claimed that the Cenotaph war memorial in London was defaced during an anti-racism protest."

- Reuters Fact Check

 

 

London pro-Palestinian march passes off peacefully but police clash with far-right protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/11/britain-israel-palestinian-protest-cenotaph/56474ca4-8083-11ee-b5cc-66c30a3bbb91_story.html

 

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

Seven people between the ages of 23 and 75 have been charged for offences including inciting racial hatred.

 

Violence broke out when the (far right) transgressed a cordon around the Cenotaph. They scuffled with police in Chinatown and were rebuffed at Westminster and Vauxhall bridges, where they tried to clash with pro-Palestinian protestors.

 

PHYS.ORG

On Armistice Day 2023, a pro-Palestine march was held in London for the fifth time since the beginning of the Israel-Palestine war. As well as...

 

EDITION.CNN.COM

Crowds gathered at the war memorial, the Cenotaph, in London on Saturday to observe the traditional two minutes silence for Armistice Day, ahead of...

 

BNN.NETWORK

Over 126 arrests were made during a far-right protest at the Cenotaph, London, on 11th November, involving football hooligans who exhibited...

The central location of this (far right) unrest was the Cenotaph, a monument constructed in commemoration of the brave souls who lost their lives during the First World War. However, the crowd gathered there was far from respectful. Consisting largely of football hooligans from across the nation, the group claimed to be there to protect the monument. Their aggressive behavior, coupled with the discovery of weapons, suggested a more sinister intention.

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Let’s examine your newly found fake sympathy for homeless veterans Jugg 
Readers may recall a few months ago I raised and linked this very issue 
Illegal immigrants newly arrived being housed in 3 star hotels in Blackpool whilst veterans being left living on the streets a few hundred yards away 
At the time your sole concern was for the rights of the illegals, the veterans could just get on with it
Now purely because it suits your narrative 
you have developed a fake sympathy for the veterans 
About time I would say
 

Meanwhile on a lighter note glad to see the Dutch coming to their senses and electing a Trump lookalike to completely disrupt the EU
Good job you actually LOST eh remainers
Guilt by association etc etc🤣
 

WWW.FT.COM

Veteran anti-Islam, anti-EU politician has capitalised on voter fears about immigration

 

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For info. The 'illegal immigrants' you mention were in all likelihood asylum seekers, which isn't illegal. Of course the government should have helped the veterans as well.

 

FULLFACT.ORG

Articles in the Daily Express and Daily Mail wrongly claimed that almost £7 million a day is being spent on hotels for people who either arrived in the...

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tobyjugg2 said:

- we are still waiting for you to condemn the evidenced far right criminality, violence and disrespect at the Cenotaph eh? @theoldrouge

 

 

Still waiting for your condemnation of the far right hooligans disrespectful violence at the Cenotaph, or your evidence of any ACTUAL ANTISEMITISM by anyone other than the far right hooligans you are so loath to condemn

 

Oh and immigration at 672,000 in year to June under your Brexit 'anti-immigrant' supporting. majority in parliament,  right wing Tories

- blame them

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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"EDL founder Tommy Robinson attended far-right Polish rally where protesters held 'Pray for Islamic Holocaust' signs"

"Robinson says he had an 'amazing time' at the event where chants for a 'Jew free' country were heard"

One demonstrator who was interviewed by state television TVP was asked why he had attended the event and he replied to “remove Jews from power,” the Jewish Chronicle reported.

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Robinson says he had an 'amazing time' at the event where chants for a 'Jew free' country were heard

Sounds antisemitic, anti-Islamic and generally racist to me and I utterly condemn them in all  their racist hate 

 

Your (z)heroes? who you STILL wont condemn? @theoldrouge

Surely not a supporter? @theoldrouge

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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It seems the march against anti-semitism people don't want Tommy Robinson, TJ.

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Organisers of London protest against anti-Jewish hatred demand that far-right leader stays away, after he claimed to support it

 

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, theoldrouge said:

Let’s examine your newly found fake sympathy for homeless veterans Jugg 

At the time your sole concern was for the rights of the illegals, the veterans could just get on with it
Now purely because it suits your narrative 
you have developed a fake sympathy for the veterans 
 

 

Simply not true, and if you paid the slightest attention - I am NOT a supporter of illegal immigration even for those trying to escape 'persecution'. BUT I am a critic of illegal and incompetent attempts at deportation which drag our nation down in the eyes of the world, our partners and any Briton with pride in our nation - and which dog whistle incompetence fail - as they should.

I am a supporter of those who fought alongside our military being given priority treatment - like afghans for example, rather than them being left to die at the hands of the Taliban to our shame.

I am a supporter of the EU and migrant workers.

I am also a critique of wasting well in excess of £100M  of taxpayer money on these incompetent dog whistles that divide our society and give 'voice' to the worst among us.

 

and your claims there are rather rich coming from an EDL supporter who seemingly pretends to support Israel in a very transparent effort to somehow 'validate; their hatred of Palestinians/Arabs/Islam. Or are you perhaps even worse, a true Israeli apologist happy to support EDL and racist bigots in attempts to simply spread further division?

... and whos only other 'support' for Jews/Israel (other than hate of Palestinians/Islam/Arabs) was support of Bonkers Bridgen in an anti-vax stance

A far cry from those of jewish persuasion in the ranks of the peace protest with 'not in my name' banners.

 

EDL hates Jews as much as they hate Muslims as repeatedly demonstrated, and as widely known. The far right is just promoting hate of Islam as it suits their purposes at the moment - if Islam vanished of the face of the planet, hate for Jews would quickly return to the for for them and their racist, hate filled supporters. Its still clearly there now.

Wonder where you would be in that case?

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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To go back to the original question

 

How can we trust Sunak or any Tory come to that, they have been shown to be rotten and corrupt to the core

As for Israel Palestine, I think Israel lost the plot, they could have claimed a lot of support in the international community for the terrorist attacks but they have gone in and murdered many innocent people - yes in retaliation for the murder of Israelis but that does not make it right. 

 

Many Palestinians just want to be left alone to get on with living. Problem is everyone confuses the issues - criticising Israel is not anti semitic just as critiquing Hamas is not anti Islam

 

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+1 +1 +1

 

Political Traps and a New Pile of Pylons: The Autumn Statement in Full .. Part

(highlights)

Jeremy Hunt stood up in the Commons to deliver his Autumn Statement this week. He painted a rosy picture of rising wages, falling debt, and reduced taxes. He might be the only man in Britain who believes any of this. Real wages, despite a recent uptick, are lower than they were 15 years ago

Meanwhile, public debt is up, in both absolute numerical terms and relative to GDP. And despite Hunt’s cuts (careful repeating that quickly) to national insurance contributions, we’re stuck with the odd combination of a dilapidated public realm, record high public spending, and the highest tax burden in seven decades which nevertheless fails to deliver services to anywhere near the standard that voters expect.

 

unprotected departments will see budgets fall by 14 per cent in the next five years – equivalent to the proportion that the austerity-mad George Osborne swung his axe at.

Part of this comes from massively reduced capital budgets, used for things like investment in mass public transit networks (needed to decarbonise transport), new energy and grid infrastructure, or any other fixed assets for the public sector, like more energy-efficient social housing, hospitals, schools or public buildings.

Jonny Ball - spotlightonpolicy

 

clarification of trap

Hunt and the Torys are reducing budgets on things that matter to people so labour will immediately have to reinstate them at massive cost.

- lets hope labour fills the gap by taxing bankers and oil and gas companies (Tory vast beneficiaries at taxpayer expense) to the hilt - and recharging VIPals for duff PPE and 'services'

That should cover it with money to spare

 

 

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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"Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch was mocked for a prediction the deal with Asia-Pacific countries would grow the economy by 0.08%" "she staunchly defended the agreement, hailed in a blaze of publicity as part of a new “global Britain” strategy"

But new figures from the Office for Budget Responsibility suggest joining the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) could add   just 0.04% to GDP in the “long run”, after 15 years.

So a tiny tinkle in the pond becomes a tiny whiny little tinkle in the pond

"Two other deals, with Australia and New Zealand, “might increase the level of real GDP by a combined 0.1% by 2035”

"The OBR also (still) calculates that the economy will be 4% smaller than if the UK had stayed in the EU"

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

The Independent revealed earlier this year government’s predicted 0.08% boost risked being an overestimate

 

as truss and shankar say the minimum wage simply isnt minimum enough, in line with Sunaks father in law

"UK PM Rishi Sunak's billionaire father-in-law Narayana Murthy wants his workers to work a 70 hours week.

 

WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

Plans to increase the minimum wage will be a ‘significant drag on the economy’, according to The Growth Commission.

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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On a possibly lighter note while @theEDLrouge is  ... oops tlypo


Fears of UK telegraph falling out of the hands of right wing self-interest  promoting racist dog whistlers entirely unfounded say UK right wing and UAE past and potential future owners
Assurances 'assured' of 'aspirations' that little would change other than a slight change to prime targets and beneficiaries say unnamed sources

'UK should resist the paper falling into the hands of these woke Arab elitists and their leftie agendas - scream UK right wing elitist sources

- of course, the papers links to disingenuous reporting should be considered in assessing any and all claims

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Former Telegraph editor Charles Moore among those to condemn bid for the Conservative party’s paper of choice

 

 

AND on a FAR more serious note

Hero immigrants attempt to save children attacked by knife wielder,

followed by riots and looting from right-wing yobs

screaming hate for immigrants

 

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

 

“I’m a parent. I have two kids myself. I think every parent would do the same,” he said. “It’s something that you don’t think about, [you] just act.”

The Brazilian was aided in disarming the attacker by a trainee chef from France, who has been in Dublin on an internship at a local restaurant since October.

The interventions by him and other passersby were praised by the Irish prime minister, Leo Varadkar, who described them as “the real Irish heroes”.

The 17-year-old student, who suffered minor injuries to his hand and face, received a congratulatory phone call from the French president, Emmanuel Macron, on Friday. .. and quite the opposite from the right wing rioters

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Brazilian Deliveroo worker Caio Benicio used motorbike helmet to hit assailant who was attacking children outside a school

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Corrected
 

AND on a FAR more serious note

Hero immigrants attempt to save children attacked by knife wielding Algerian

followed by riots and looting from yobs pure and simple 
 


 

 

 

 

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No violence here you may notice 
 

A spokesperson for Campaign Against Antisemitism said: 'Week after week, central London has become a no-go zone for Jews.

'We have witnessed mass criminality, including glorification of terrorism, support for banned terrorist organisations such as Hamas, and incitement to racial or religious hatred against Jews.'

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So you a saying 100,000 walked on a March against antisemitism .. reported perhaps incorrectly in some News articles as pro-Israel rather than the unquestionably supportable 'against antisemitism'  - just as many reported 'pro-Palestine' rather than 'pro-peace/ceasefire'

... and they marched though an alleged '"o-go zone for jews"   ... yet no rabbles attacked them   That correct?

 

- Well actually 60,000 and I do think its a shame there wasn't more. I will almost always support all peace/anti-hate sentiment.

- but crucially no one attacked them, and NO hate filled government ministers dog whistled them as hate marches or tried to have them banned

 

 - a shame that the 300,000 strong Palestinian peace/ceasefire  protest (which included many Jews) didn't get the same courtesy  eh?

and an even greater shame that even 'peace/tolerance marches are too often 'promoted/nudged/dog whistled' for division rather than PEACE

 

meanwhile - around the world More Peace/Ceasefire demonstrations

BNN.NETWORK

Global protests demand a permanent ceasefire in Gaza amidst a halt in Israeli airstrikes. Demonstrations took place in countries including...

Including many Jews with:

'NOT IN MY NAME' , 'NEVER AGAIN TO ANY PEOPLE' and similar banners

  • I agree 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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perhaps a little very carefully applied and very appropriate force is occasionally both justifiable and welcome .. to ensure peace at peace marches

- the Met seemed to have a more somewhat more effective tactic this time ...

 

Met Police officers detained Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, at demonstration near the Royal Courts of Justice

 

and seems likely to me that far more peace loving demonstrators would have attended in support of decrying antisemitism, and promoting peace and tolerance if certain other high profile divisive liars hadn't been in high profile and priority attendance

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Rishi Sunak has said companies have pledged to invest nearly £30bn in the UK as he prepares to meet leading business figures at Hampton Court in an effort to drum up foreign investment.

The government said £29.5bn of new investment had been earmarked for the UK, including projects by the ScottishPower owner, Iberdrola, and BioNTech, the German company which partnered with Pfizer on its Covid vaccine.

 

Aren't they part of the EU?

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Hasn't the UK invested Billions in EU US and other foreign owned and based oil and gas company profits up front first though HB

Fair exchange of UK taxpayer money into worthy hands is no robbery eh?

 

When you think about it - UK taxpayer has paid for the investment even if the profits go to them in increased bills for more profits abroad  ... errr

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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The 'Reform' party claim Lee Anderson is a liar

- bit rich (if true) from a party that calls itself 'reform eh?

Surely they knew that anyway - else why offer/consider him for a position - especially when he seems to be doing their will where he is anyway?

The leader of Reform UK has denied reports that Lee Anderson was offered money to defect to his party, and has suggested he made the claims to negotiate his promotion to deputy Conservative Party Chairman.

 

So which do we believe? - neither seems the only answer ... while we wait for Anderson to jump ship ..

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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1 hour ago, honeybee13 said:

Last time I looked, Germany was in the EU. :D  It's OK though, Germany/Europe need us more than we need them.

Bit of leaver baiting imo,
Youll be offending my delicate leaver sensibilities next 🤣

One of your mates eh Jugg 
 

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

Footage posted on social media shows a row breaking out between two men on a London train, in which the Palestine...

 

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Leaver baiting? - You mean 'the Truth'

Well, we cant help it if someone considers Truth as 'baiting

 

* Record profits at taxpayer expense to foreign energy companies, who then use it to buy more options to get more UK taxpayer money - true isn't it? (as i said US as well as EU taking advantage - as well as tax haven protected UK billionaires)

* Record Profits driven by - Record energy bills - with high prices locked in (Not just EU - UK politician driven with US, EU and UK tax haven  'investors benefiting - not EU - look at France)

* Record immigration from outside the EU at around 3-4 times the rate of immigration 13 years ago

* Record food prices (OK - a lot of that IS Brexit)

* Housing market collapse and fresh the mortgage crisis that may well be just down the road despite record homelessness and record rent prices (with rich folk and 'investment tax haven accounts' readying to buy up repossessed houses to rent)

 

So a lot of this is UK politician driven far more than Brexit driven.

Really isnt a good look after 13 years of ever more right wing Toryism - making things worse and worse and worse. Thatcherism wasn't anywhere near so self serving or incompetent.

 

 

The UK is ranked fifth for the minimum wage, but has one of the highest costs of living on the continent.

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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