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Should we trust Sunak or the next PM to fix the Country's problems? (title revised 24/10/22)


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Wasn't the BBC - as you would see its abcnews quoting IDF force reports

and the hospital bit adlibed somewhat by me was from videos of the IDF force released by the IDF to major news channels

 

Tell you what @theoldrouge

Lets see if we can again agree on something:

 

Lets me ask you a question, and we'll accept the creation of Israel and its boundaries at its modern creation as done, or at least as history.

Few argue against Israels or anyones right to defend itself - including machine gunning and bombing the crap out of anyone invading their territory and killing their citizens

- maybe even agree a limited action directed precisely against the terrorists or their directors if they escaped out of Israel alive. I certainly Do Not REFUTE anyones right to do that - including Israel

.. MAYBE even a very small number of regrettable unavoidable civilian casualties in targeting and capturing or killing the terrorists (I am rather on the right there)

yes?

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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A fair number of people won't be happy about Palantir getting hold of NHS records.

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Exclusive: Company that works with intelligence services wins £480m contract in joint bid with Accenture

 

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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A reminder of Palantir and links with Cambridge Analytica.

WWW.CBSNEWS.COM

A data crunching firm co-founded by Facebook board member Peter Thiel is investigating links between one of its employees and Cambridge Analytica.

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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and while we wait for TOR to respond to self-defense vs war crimes, massacres, atrocities, and mass murder of children

 

Dont forget freezing income tax relief is effectively the largest tax increase in over 40 years, and that on top of the already largest tax burden for UK taxpayers since WWII    (unless you are rich enough to use tax havens and tax accountants to pay less than the poorest workers)

and add on top of that 5% increase in council tax ..

Edited by tobyjugg2
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The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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The response is quite simple 
The only war crimes are those committed on October 7 by the terrorists
The recent video evidence from the IDF shows that Isreal is fully justified in its actions 

Meanwhile this article by Professor Goodwin sums up the enemy within in this country 
 

The woke Left and radical Islamism are not just feeding off one another but are, together, undermining British values that have prevailed for centuries.

Their common cause comes from them sharing many worrying things in common.

Both are illiberal.

They routinely impose religious, gender or sexual agendas regardless of the rights that individual citizens have.

Both are dismissive of the values that lie at the heart of democracy, such as tolerance, pluralism and free speech.

Both shun serious debate, preferring to indoctrinate the young through faith schools or woke curriculums, while attacking or ‘cancelling’ those who oppose them, variously using charges of ‘Islamophobia’ or ‘racism’ to silence those who criticise them.”

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

MATT GOODWIN: The recent ugly expressions of anti-Semitism and support for Hamas at these marches represents...


 

 

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12 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

The response is quite simple 
The only war crimes are those committed on October 7 by the terrorists

Then we differ - Israels murdering children and mass bombing, machine gunning and shelling of civilians are undoubtedly war crimes and atrocities, and whole orders of magnitude more horrendous than the October 7th terrorist acts, despite the unquestionable terrorist act actioned then. Absolutely no question on this on moral or legal grounds IMO.

We should not be aiding in any way whatsoever Israels mass murder and forced displacement pogrom. Not at all, in any way

.. other than in promoting/pressing for a ceasefire and peace talks.

 

You should also consider that if YOU think that Israels atrocities are validated by Oct 7th - then any reasoning person should also accept that so is Hamas limited attack on an invader force who forcibly displaces and murders Palestinian citizens, driving them from their land, bulldozing their homes and continuing to replace Palestinians with Israelis in 'settlements'.

THAT is the reason Hamas has the support it does, and is unquestionably one of, if not THE main barrier to peace.

 

I think neither is reasonable.

That is NOT being a Hamas apologist - its looking at the facts and abhorring atrocities by anyone.

 

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

From the Covid inquiry, yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance.

F_aCjdLWsAAZKXq.jpg

Good to see that viewers are boycotting Farage whingey whiny 'I cant do that for just a million and a half' overpaid attempt to rewrite history and return (lol) to politics

Just another self serving liar .. like the others on that front page.

 

and re Johnson and his lying incompetents - As was stated here all along - kick any examination into the long grass, then claim 'how could anybody know'.

* How could anyone know that putting people together in an enclosed space, be it airplanes, eat out to help the virus out, or sending infected and infectious people into unprepared care homes would increase spread of a rapidly spreading respiratory virus

* How could we understand such technicalities as the scientist spouting such technical jargon as ''putting people together in enclosed spaces when a respiratory virus is spreading would cause more infections' .. so we stopped asking or listening

* 'Let them die' 'let the bodies pile high in their thousands'

* How did we know our pals who ran pubs and cake shops wouldn't do a better job with taxpayer money err PPE than established UK supply chains

* Boris put his head in his hands and said we're s**t

 

So, as seemed obvious, Boris is NOT a high functioning sociopath, or high functioning anything 

.. seems from ever the growing body of evidence then and now - hes a very low functioning sociopath. A destroyer not a builder.

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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A ceasefire would be a one sided surrender to Hamas
Do you seriously think that a terrorist group with the stated aim of the obliteration of Israel would abide by a cease fire/peace agreement?
 

Just in case you have conveniently forgotten here is a reminder of why the IDF are taking the actions that they are. 

 

 

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Richard Madely asked a very pertinent question at the start of the IDF campaign 
 

“Prior to October 7 what was the word on the street in Gaza?”Why did no one warn Israel about what was planned?”
 


Give an answer to that and we will determine how many are indeed “innocent civilians “
or by association have many  brought havoc on themselves and their families ?
 

You only need to watch the hospital dated CCTV to know that the medical staff we’re fully implicated 

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4 hours ago, theoldrouge said:

“Prior to October 7 what was the word on the street in Gaza?”Why did no one warn Israel about what was planned?”
Give an answer to that and we will determine how many are indeed “innocent civilians “

There was no 'word on the street'

As stated by Israeli intelligence, US intelligence, UK intelligence, French intelligence, German intelligence and even (apparently believed by western security services) Iranian intelligence ... (You'll have to ask Russia and Turkey yourself)

If there was word was 'on the street in Gaza' it would have been known to Israeli and American intelligence at the VERY least

This has been quite clearly explained in reports from the security services. Caught everyone by surprise.

So by YOUR own statements there - Israel is murdering innocent civilians, including over 6000 children.

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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HMRC investigating Camerson's perks while he was with Greensill. Maybe they'll look deeper into other dealings with the company.

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Former PM, who became a life peer last week, under scrutiny over use of financier’s aircraft and offshore trust

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I still say you can't believe you can blame children for the lack of Israeli intelligence.

A large number of Israeli citizens also think intelligence failed.

I do not blame children who regrettably have been dragged into this conflict by a good number of their parents and are now being used as a propaganda tool by Hamas 
 

A majority of the population is clearly considered to be dangerous, you only have to ask why Egypt and Jordan refuse to accept a single “refugee “ for fear of internal terror attacks

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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For a claimed Israel/Jewish supporter you seem to be entirely 'mistaken' regarding the situation @theoldrouge- and we do really seem to be seeing hate of Palestinians rather than sympathy for victims on all sides from you - but thats common from extreme right wing 'perspectives as is the fact light dog whistles you keep touting.

Examples

First

* Anyone, let alone someone even basically aware of Jewish perspectives touting le-bad-penny as anything other than (ahem) prompting hate for muslims rather than support for jews  .. all for political gain - as stated in Jewish publications and/or by Jewish authors.

AND

* Anyone at all quoting remarks like that allegedly of Madely and 'seemingly' not being aware of the self-recriminations in Israel for:

1. Not being aware that such an attack was planned - with calls for resignations in Israel

2. The very tardy response when alerts were raised in the first minutes of the attack

3. and The deep analysis of intelligence agencies across the world regarding their failures to be aware

 

One might be excused for thinking you are just extreme right hate whistling, although of course the extreme right in Israel aren't immune from performing in that way of course - and which (extreme right) is touted (in Israel) as a significant contributor of the failures resulting in the success of the Hamas terrorist attack.

 

For those who want something better than a dog whistle , a couple of starters:

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

 

WWW.IISS.ORG

The world reacts to the unprecedented incursion by Hamas in south Israel.

 

 

Rather like the hate filled rhetoric surrounding the Rwanda human trafficking plans of Sunak, Braverman and ilk which only really caters for around 2-300 'refugees ... if any

- at a cost of considerably more than 140 million pounds

You could send 300 to Spain and keep them in full board hotels for a decade or more for far less - and they would be queuing up to get on the plane

- let alone put a few thousand through training programs so they would be a boon Britain

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Now lets remind ourselves of your responses Jugg 
Not one condemnation of the mob who trampled on and defaced our war memorials 
Not one condemnation of the mob chanting antisemitic racist slogans on our streets 
You are clearly more aligned with Corbyn and McDonald than Starmer who has at least had the guts to keep to the No ceasefire line 
In case you missed it here’s one from another of your crowd Owen Jones
Nice character eh
 

WWW.GBNEWS.COM

The Match of the Day host reposted a video featuring Owen Jones and historian Raz Segal

 

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On 17/11/2023 at 19:11, tobyjugg2 said:

Veterans homeless on the streets while an inhuman, law breaking promoting and immoral (ex) home secretary called it a lifestyle choice and trying to criminalise their plight is the real obnoxious and abhorrent affront to their service now isn't it?

Let alone that they try to pressure charities not to support them with something as simple as a tent to protect them from weather

Thats immoral and offensive.

Yes, lets remind ourselves of the responses.

I think claiming being concerned over a few memorials is disingenuous when compared to ignoring, let alone denying the plight of those actual people who served and the debt we owe those people

and surely its most likely yuckey-lemon and his right wing mob that plastered any antisemitic slogans on any memorials - they DO have form dont they?

 

and as HB has raised - what memorials, and precisely what 'antisemetic'  slogans are you referring @theoldrouge?

and who supposedly did it?

 

Oh - and just for the record, I dont read Owen Jones - at all. Decided long ago he is way to left wing for me and a waffler.

I do occasionally glance at the Mail or Express just to see what the really shallow end of the gene pool is being fed.

Like with Owen Jones, I dont watch GBNews either, ever - occasionally watching bits trashing them for laughs on youtube is ok though - eh Keith/Linda

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Budget summary (Faisal does it better)

We've already taken, and will continue to take £50 billion a year from basic rate taxpayers @ every year this decade just from freezing tax allowances (£100B a year every year extra tax all told) - the highest Tax burden since WWII ... and projected to get higher every year until the Tories are gone - perhaps longer given the debt piles they have accrued

.. BUT heres £10B back starting next year in a reduction of the wodge of nation Insurance tax you pay

less the extra 5% council tax increases next year, and don't of course forget 30% food price increase, 80%+ energy price increase ... Plus high inflation, low growth and rising job losses.

 

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The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Just clicked who is going to get the lions share of the investment tax relief benefit further announced in the budget (they already had loads as noted here which neutralised the so called windfall taxes on their profiteering excess profits)..

interest rates (inc gov debt) is the highest for ages, so any small businesses will have to be very careful with the investment interest cost V relief balance

- The large energy companies will just drop their investment in rubbish drill for 3 weeks oil/gas in for tax relief

 

- and that investment and tax relief is NOT being used for renewables relieving our dependence on their planet destroying, profiteering hydrocarbons

 

Oil companies aren’t walking the talk

Oil companies that are likely to attend the United Nations annual climate conference, COP28, in Dubai at the end of the month are making little to no contributions toward the green-energy transition, according to an Associated Press analysis of reports from 36 such firms. Most of them have few to no investments in solar or wind energy, and many are putting billions into extraction and oil refining. Although most companies are making some effort to reduce emissions in their operations, they are not addressing the biggest share of their emissions, and the hardest ones to solve: those that result when customers use their products to heat homes, power cars and fly planes. Some oil companies emit as much as entire nations. At least six of them each emit more than 38 small island nations combined.

Associated Press | 7 min read

 

PLUS:

Rising levels of interest on government debt is decreasing the chance of tax cuts before the next general election, economists and financial experts have warned.

 

Gilt yields – which refer to the interest on government bonds – have risen significantly, while US bonds have been caught up in a selling frenzy.

 

Both gilts and bonds are money investors loan governments to fund borrowing. In the UK, the yield for 30-year gilts hit their highest level since 1998 last week. This has even surpassed levels seen after the mini-Budget.

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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