Being chased for already paid 7 year old Housing Benefit debt again, by DCA Jacobs **RESOLVED**

[Paydayhostage]

This is a long tale of Council incompetence and will raise some legal questions. I'm grateful for any help.

 

I apparently had a Housing Benefit overpayment from Oxford County Council 7 years ago (2015).

 

I was not informed of this at the time, but 5 years after the debt was incurred, and several years after I'd moved away they sent one letter to my new address which I didn't open in time and then immediately applied for an Direct Earnings Attachment  (DEA).

 

They didn't try and use the correct email address or phone number they had on file to resolve it earlier.

 

Despite my protestations after I had an embarrassing meeting with my boss (who'd received a letter requesting the DEA), and asked the Council for a payment plan, but they wouldn't budge and took the debt in full in two instalments in Feb and March 2020.

 

My payslips confirm the full amount was taken. I believe the debt was legitimate.

 

Now 2.5 years later (and more than 7 years after the initial debt was incurred) I have an 8Am text from Jacobs DCA saying:

 

"We are instructed by Oxford CC to pursue you for non payment of Housing Benefit....balance is £xxxx...Contact our office immediately on....Jacobs"

 

Upon firing off an irate email to Oxford CC I'm advised this is correct and the debt is indeed outstanding:

 

"Our records show that we did request an attachment of earnings in January 2020.

 

In June 2020 it was found that no monies had been received in regard to that attachment.

 

After a check was made on our bank account and time given in case of late payment from your employer the debt was passed over for enforcement in November 2020.

 

There was then quite a delay in it being forwarded to Jacobs because of a tendering process regarding agencies we used.

 

You will need to contact Jacobs as to payments to be made to this debt –

which remain s payable in full.

 

If your employer made deductions from your earnings then you will need to contact them for full details of what they did with the proceeds.  We had sent them comprehensive instructions as to payments – including a reference that had to accompany such payments.  If they now maintain they did send money to Oxford City Council we would need to know what they paid, when and what reference accompanied the payment. If a payment was made for multiple accounts we would need a full scheduled breakdown for each payment.

 

Please be aware that the 6 year rule regarding debt refers to the last date of contact. Therefore the attachment of earnings in January 2020 would mean that we had till January 2026 to contact you again to keep the debt alive (recoverable). 

 

My Correspondence today extends that deadline to, at least, July 2028.  Any payments made or correspondence from you, Jacobs or us will further extend the deadline to keep this debt recoverable."

 

My questions are this:

 

1. Since I can prove the DEA came out of my wages. Surely only my former employer is liable, if they didn't pass it on?  I think it is very unlikely it wasn't passed on and thought DEAs were meant to be watertight.

 

2. I know the statute of limitations resets when payments are made, but doesn't it also take into account how reasonable any delays in communication/enforcement from the creditor are?

 

Waiting 5 years to pursue the debt at all, going straight to a DEA and then waiting a further 2.5 years seems ridiculous to me.

 

Once again they didn't try to contact me by email or phone, despite having that info and this time they didn't even send any letters. However, they did manage to give my phone number to Jacobs.

 

I have emailed my former employer, an FCA regulated finance firm who I remain on good terms with, for assistance but haven't yet had a response.

[dx100uk]

you mean jacobs bailiffs

they are not a powerless DCA!

 

its a govt debt, they cant become statute barred.

 

get proof it was paid, let oxford sort it out.

 

[Paydayhostage]

Thanks. I have pdfs on my payslips showing the deductions (which naturally add up to exactly the o/s debt). Can I simply send these to the Council and/or Jacobs and say "not my problem"? Am I right to think the liability is then with my employer? Seems amazing to me that even a DEA can apparently go wrong.

 

Secondly, do I have any recourse for the ridiculous delays, and lack of contact, by the Council? 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Paydayhostage said:

Please be aware that the 6 year rule regarding debt refers to the last date of contact.

Therefore the attachment of earnings in January 2020 would mean that we had till

January 2026 to contact you again to keep the debt alive (recoverable).  My

Correspondence today extends that deadline to, at least, July 2028.  Any payments

made or correspondence from you, Jacobs or us will further extend the deadline to keep

this debt recoverable."

 

BTW the above is total BS.

why did they put it, it doesn't apply and is wrong anyway even if it did apply.

 

as a side note are jacobs sayin they are bailiff and have added any 'fees'.

 

dont worry about who is responsible, fwd your proof and let them head scratch it.

 

if jacobs are only acting a dca ignore them.

 

no recourse on delays no. not worth it.

 

dx

[Paydayhostage]

I pointed out in my initial response that they had taken forever (twice!) to contact me/escalate the debt and mentioned statute of limitations. That's why he went into depth about how it's within the limit.

 

Jacobs have only cited the original amount. The text was very short and sparse on detail (exactly as quoted in original post). Usually I'd send the usual 'prove it' response, but no need since I already paid it. I will inform them the DEA was paid (at least by me) to get them off my back.

 

I can't tell if they're acting as DCA or as bailiffs, but the latter would be very disproportionate to the claimed debt.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Paydayhostage

[dx100uk]

forget pointless prove it letters ...went out the windows 10yrs ago.

 

they would be adding fees if bailiffs

ignore them totally

 

 

 

[Paydayhostage]

Thanks for the advice.  How come you say no point in a 'prove it' here, but recommend it elsewhere. Is that because benefit isn't a form of credit?

 

I am worried that the Council will try another DEA instead, though. Always embarrassing. Should I not at least send them the payslips? Even if this is just posturing to 'shake the tree'. I don't want to risk anything further.

[dx100uk]

Look at the date of the prove it advice.  Very old hat. There never was any need for it but that's the way people were then. Don't poke bears, but never secretly move from an address thus inviting backdoor Litigation on debt 

 

Yours . Ignore jacobs. Deal direct with proof 

 

Dx

[unclebulgaria67]

Agree make a complaint to Oxford Council tax department sending proof they have already collected..

 

 

[Ethel Street]

I take a slightly different view on this.. 

 

Your payslips are evidence that the money was taken from you by your employer. They aren't evidence that your employer paid it to the council.

 

If for whatever reason a deduction from earnings does not get the council the money the debt remains with you.

 

I would focus on getting payment details from your employer, then when the council find they had the money all along put in a formal complaint.

[Bazooka Boo]

It is more than likely that this has been paid into another account the council have, very often there can be a mix up of reference numbers and it gets paid into another account of another department within the LA.

 

Happened to me numerous times, and after they had trawled their accounts, sure enough the exact figure had been paid and simply turned up in another departments coffers, IMO it'll be the LA who have messed up.

 

[Paydayhostage]

That is what I'd expect tbh and what I've said to the Council. I had numerous issues whilst I was a student at Oxford due their incompetence. In fact much of the Council's work is outsourced to the infamous C(r)apita.

 

I've sent the payslips showing the DEA deductions; confirmed my address and contact details (just to ensure they send any escalation comms to the right place); told them I've contacted my employer, but also that they should do it themselves; and finally that I will not be contacting Jacobs.

[Paydayhostage]

A new text from Jacobs this morning

 

"You have 1 final chance to contact us about your debt. Failure to do so will lead to a Debt Collector visiting your property. Call us immediately on..."

 

Cheeky . Not only is the implication of 'final warning or we come and harass you in person' stupidly aggressive it's also untrue. I'll look which body I am complain to about them whilst continuing to ignore them.

[dx100uk]

As that's all a DCA can do 

Not really worth it 

 

Radio silence.

 

Dx

[Paydayhostage]

As a final update on this, the Council contacted me and apologised once I'd provided the payslips showing the deductions.

 

They advised they would simply chase my former employer going forward and that the DCA idiots would no longer contact me.

 

Oddly enough, a week later my former boss belatedly replied to me kindly advising that they would liaise with the Council to sort.

 

How generous of him, after I'd already had to prove it was their problem. Either way, resolved.