Deprivation of liberties / removal of rights

[maddyhind]

My mum had a stroke recently.

 

Initially it went undiagnosed and she received no treatment. That's another matter. 

 

 She was progressing quite well until she got covid in hospital. She has chronic asthma and was in isolation for ten days.

 

She fell when in a side room on her own and lay unattended.

 

I am her carer and she hasn't gone a single day without seeing me for years. Being isolated desperately ill and slightly confused she became despondent. 

 

Since she came out of isolation she has improved slowly. She is not mentally incapable and no one has suggested she is until today. 

 

 Without telling me or consulting me the hospital has taken out a deprivation of liberties order against her  This bypasses any protection she has under the mental capacity act.

 

She adamantly doesn't want to go into a care home but she cannot make decisions for herself. I can't make decisions for her. 

 

The house is in mums name so if, as a certain doctor wants she goes into a care home it will have to be sold. 

 

 All of this happened Friday evening and the best interests meeting for her discharge is at 9am on Monday morning so I can't get a solicitor, an advisor or contact citizens advice while they're closed at the weekend. 

 

 I have been lied to, blatantly to my face, my mum will be put into a care home which she won't survive and I will be made homeless all so that someone can get my mums money. 

 

I'm desperate.

 

Is there any one I can contact over the weekend who might be able to help? 

[BazzaS]

Who are you saying benefits / "gets my Mum's money" ?

 

I suspect you don't have a "health and wellbeing" power of attorney?.

[maddyhind]

2 hours ago, BazzaS said:

Who are you saying benefits / "gets my Mum's money" ?

 

I suspect you don't have a "health and wellbeing" power of attorney?.

I don't have any power of attorney at all. My mum and I were naive

[honeybee13]

Have you started reading up on this? Age UK has some good information on DOLS and a link to a factsheet. I always find their explanations clear.

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/search/?q=dols

 

HB

[maddyhind]

Thanks honeybee. At the moment I'm desperately looking for someone to speak to over the weekend. 

[honeybee13]

I hope you find someone, I don't suppose Age UK are there though. Hopefully some background reading will help you with the meeting on Monday.

 

HB

[Man in the middle]

The link below will take you to the Government's page on how to challenge a Deprivation of Liberties (DoL) order:

Deprivation of Liberty orders - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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How to apply to the Court of Protection to challenge an order restricting someone's freedom or get a deprivation of liberty authorised.

From the speed this has been implemented I get the impression that this has been granted as an "Urgent" DoL Order. If so, it will have been authorised by the hospital and can last for no more than seven days. Standard DoL Orders must be authorised by (usually) the local authority and there is a clear process for them to do this and there are a number of criteria that must be met before an order should be granted. These include:

 

• The person is suffering from a mental disorder.
• The person lacks capacity to decide for themselves about the restrictions which are proposed so they can receive the necessary care and treatment.

 

Before granting an Urgent DoL order the hospital should have spoken to you (or another relevant person) to discuss the plan and determine if another method of treatment that does not entail deprivation of liberty is possible.

 

This article provides information about the protections that are in place to prevent unlawful or unnecessary DoL:

 

Liberty Protection Safeguards (LPS): Latest developments | SCIE

WWW.SCIE.ORG.UK

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More information about Liberty Protection Safeguards, replacing DoLS for likely implementation in October 2020.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Man in the middle

[honeybee13]

That's really helpful, MitM. Thank you.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

I’d asked above : who are you saying benefits / “gets my Mum’s money”

 

This is relevant if (as it seems you might be suggesting) they aren’t acting in your Mum’s best interests.

 

Equally, you don’t want the scenario where they (even wrongly) consider that you aren’t acting in your Mum’s best interests, and are looking to keep the status quo so you can keep living in her house ……

 

You can also go down the route of seeing if it is likely her lack of capacity is temporary, (which it might be if due to an inter-current medical problem), or even depression!

You could ask if she has been assessed by an expert in psychiatry (/ old age psychiatry……)

Edited July 30, 2022 by BazzaS

[maddyhind]

Thank you everyone. 

No one spoke to me at all about the dol. I'd never heard of one until I was told one had been made against mum. 

 My concern is one particular doctor is acting In bad faith. Also the timing, dol issued Friday evening, meeting at 9am Monday so everything is closed for the weekend and I can't get any advice. 

[BazzaS]

Again!

who benefits if you mum’s house gets sold?

(please answer : I’ve explained above why it is relevant, and so can’t fully advise if you are bringing it up but not explaining!)

 

why do you think that doctor is acting in bad faith?. That is quite a serious accusation (one that a doctor could be struck off for if they

 a) were not acting in a patient’s best interest, and

b) for their gain, or gain of another that they had a relationship with…..

[maddyhind]

BazzaS I'm unsure who benefits from getting my Mum's money, presumably the care home 

 

Mum has been in hospital for a few weeks. She had 2 strokes and caught covid in hospital. She has chronic asthma and is in her nineties. During her isolation she had a bad fall. 

 

Despite this every therapist, nurse and doctor said that she is making excellent progress. Until the particular doctor just said that treatment was pointless because of her age and hospital was "the worst place for her because of infection risk" but insisted she'd be better off in a care home than her own home.

 

I pointed out that care homes were the worst for infection but he keeps pushing the care home angle. In the 24 hours since that I was assured that mum's fear of a care home and desire to come home would be honoured. Then same doctor had a word and a dol was issued without being discussed with me.

 

There was a meeting about mum that was supposed to include me and the same doctor said that I'd agreed with him that mum is mentally incapable, which I categorically hadn't. 

I would love to know if Doctor has a link to a care home. 

[honeybee13]

Do you know who's going to be at this meeting on Monday? I haven't attended anything like that but I would hope that it's more than one person making the decision. Maybe there's a social worker involved or someone else from the medical team, or a psychiatrist?

 

When my mother was diagnosed with demential it was an NHS psychiatrist and my mother's mental health social worker referred her.

 

If the house has to be sold, I'd assume the money would go into your mother's account as she owns it. I don't see it being handed straight to the care home as an advance payment.

 

HB

[maddyhind]

The "whole team "will be there apparently. This includes a social worker who has never met mum or I, sneaky doctor and several therapists. Don't know who else. I am taking a friend but the social worker says that I can ask for an independent advocate, which the hospital pointedly didn't tell me. This is another reason why I get a bad vibe about the whole process. 

[honeybee13]

So the independent advocate sounds like something to mention early on, I would think. Maybe you'll find the social worker helpful, I'd hope they would listen.

 

HB

[Man in the middle]

You are getting somewhat ahead of events.

 

If it is a doctor (i.e. the hospital) who has initiated the DoL order it is only valid for seven days. It is what is termed an "urgent" DoL order. A standard DoL order (which can last up to 12 months) can only be issued by a  Local Authority and that is what will be required if your mother is to be detained for longer. Securing a standard DoL order is a process which involves at least six assessments of the patients condition and the proposals planned to treat it. It includes a "Mental Health" Assessment and a "Best Interests" assessment. This also makes provision for, wherever possible, that someone to be appointed as the relevant person’s representative in an unpaid capacity (i.e. a family member or friend). This is something that should also have been discussed with you before an "urgent" DoL order was made.

 

Whether the doctor you mention has any non-medical reasons for seeking this order is difficult to say. But from your description it seems, on the face of it, that due process has not even been carried out properly before the "urgent" DoL order was made. You must keep on top of this. In particular, when you attend Monday's meeting, you must establish why it is considered necessary to detain your mother, what plans there are for her treatment that requires her detention and why that treatment cannot be sustained without her detention. You should also question why you were not consulted before the "urgent" DoL order was made. At worst, you must be prepared to challenge the  order (which will expire next Friday anyway) in the Court of Protection if necessary. You can do this if you think:

• the order may not have been authorised properly
• this action is not in the person’s best interests
• the person has mental capacity to decide their own treatment

Deprivation of Liberty is not something even a court embarks on lightly without evidence of its necessity, its likely duration and the consideration of alternatives. The Supreme Court heard a case about DoL orders a few years ago and some harsh criticisms and recommendations for changes came from that. I don't know if your mother's doctor is aware of that.

[maddyhind]

Thank you man in the middle. That's very informative. I'm in the UK by the way

[Ethel Street]

I agree with above. When a DoL was a put in place for my mother when she was a care home I was full involved in the meeting and there was an independent advocate from the local authority. And somebody there - the independent advocate I'd say - should have spoken to your mother beforehand about what she wants. These meetings have a tendency to discuss the person concerned as if their opinion didn't count. Challenge that.

 

A DoL doesn't allow anybody to sell your mother's house or take her money. DoL is nothing to do with financial powers.

 

A key thing to look out for here is whether your mother still has mental capacity as defined under the mental health act. Expert medical opinion on that, eg from a community psychiatric consultant, should be presented at Monday's meeting. If it isn't challenge immediately. Because without evidence of lack of mental capacity the Dol should not be granted. If your mother is judged still to have mental capacity no-one (generally speaking) can force her to go into a care home against her will.

 

I'd expect evidence of lack of mental capacity to come from a medical professional who was both senior (preferably Consultant-level) and qualified in this area of medicine, eg community or geriatric psychiatry. Ask exactly who has made the mental capacity assessment and their job title and specialism.

 

Also be aware that lacking mental capacity isn't a once-and-for-ever thing. Your mother could temporarily be lacking capacity because of the illness she's been through in hospital but be expected to regain capacity if she returned home. 

[maddyhind]

Thanks Ethel. I am aware that a dol doesn't let anyone sell the house directly but it does let them put mum in a care home which she will have to sell the house to pay for. 

 Mum struggles with words and memory but it's intermittent, minute by minute. The capacity act would have protected her but the dol feels to me like a deliberate attempt to bypass those protections. 

[maddyhind]

Thanks to invaluable advice from forum members I feel much more confident going into the meeting. 

  I also intend to challenge the DoL. Does anyone know of a solicitor who does this kind of work. 

[maddyhind]

One more point that I had forgotten to include. Mum has been in hospital for a few weeks but no one felt a DoL was necessary until I said that mum's wishes were not to go into a care home. Within an hour an urgent DoL was issued without any discussion with me. 

 Is it any wonder that I am concerned 

[honeybee13]

These are all legitimate questions for you to ask tomorrow. You're entitled to information.

 

Hopefully you can get to the bottom of what's happened and why procedures don't seem to have been followed.

 

I would wait to find a lawyer until after the meeting; as MitM says, this DoL order should only last for a week and after tomorrow you should have a much better idea of what's going on. One question I'm not sure about is whether you would be able to look after your mum at home if she doesn't go into a care home?

 

We don't recommend lawyers I'm afraid, it's against site rules. But the Law Society website lets you search for local people with the right specialisations on this page. I imagine it would come under Mental Capacity or failing that, Social welfare.

 

Find a Solicitor - The Law Society

SOLICITORS.LAWSOCIETY.ORG.UK

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Find A Solicitor is a free service from The Law Society for anyone looking for legal services in England and Wales that are regulated by the SRA

 

HB

[honeybee13]

I don't think I posted this before. Age UK have a very helpful factsheet on DoL. It includes the procedures to be followed and who should be involved, plus how to challenge one if need be.

 

It's a pdf and if you google Factsheet 62 Age UK, you should find it.

 

HB

[maddyhind]

Thank you HB. There are some great people on this forum 

[honeybee13]

Happy reading.

 

HB