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    • What it's up to you – but you come here for our advice and then you go to a garage for advice and you take their advice. Are they lawyers? Do they have legal experience? Are they going to be the people who draft your letter of rejection? Are they  the people who will draft your letter of claim? I think you need to decide where you are going to get your advice from.  
    • I explained in the garage what is the case and they advice me to do it only diagnostic.    
    • I'm glad to say now that you're going to have difficulty bringing a legal action against these people. You don't have a proper trading address and even if you can convince the court that you did actually serve the claim correctly, and you win the case – which is pretty well guaranteed – the difficulty will be trying to enforce the judgement. Enforcement means that they will have to agree to pay the judgement or else you will send bailiffs around and the bailiffs will oblige them to pay. At this level you are only dealing with County Court bailiffs who are pussycats and they will have the same difficulty finding the still open as you are. The cost of bringing this claim would be about £50. Assuming that they don't defend – you will get judgement but then the cost of getting county court bailiffs involved is about another £65 or so so you would be out of pocket by £115. You would get this money back – assuming that you can enforce the judgement. We are happy to advise you and we are happy to help you with this. Your chances of serving the County Court judgement on their stall is reasonable. Your chances of success is pretty well guaranteed but your chances of enforcement and getting the money for the phone and also your court costs are frankly negligible. So you might have gone to a lot of trouble and find yourself out of pocket by nearly £300 – price of the phone + cost of the action and enforcement. We don't often give negative advice here – but in this case unless you can find out more about the sellers and in particular where they live – and also their names, I think you are on a hiding to nothing
    • The things is the computer shows also in my car 18k mileage however has only 11k maybe even they was changing the clock. I attached now fully proof from MOT Centre We have done only the diagnostic on vehicle. Could you please help me to send the email to bigmotor and also finance company ?   Thank you   Audi Report.pdf
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park Denmark Hill Camberwell, London SE5 8RW***Claim Dismissed***


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You are getting there  though I would point out in your WS at 2.8 that  you could add  that  neither of  those companies are members of the BPA nor the IPC and are not able to apply to the DVLA for motorists data. Nor are they obliged to observe the rules of PoFA.

Which is why their signs do not comply with the BPA code of Conduct.

In 4.2  it is best to quote the actual clause from PoFA  as not all Judges are au fait with PoFa. In this case the parking period is Schedule 4 Section 9[2]a]  

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

However as you have outed yourself as the driver it is probably not worth mentioning any of it.

your 4.4 point should follow or be included in point 4.1 to make sense.

you should also ask for the whole case to be struck out because of the extra charge.

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I have not received their WS. Assume this would be issued through the post as they haven't/ shouldn't have any other means of contacting me. 

The court papers say the judge needs to receive the information 3 days before the hearing but the target date this month is 14 days before. I'll ask later how and when I send mine to both the court and the claimant. 

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Thanks for your understanding.

Given my stupidity paras 4.2 & 4.3 are unnecessary and should be cut out.

In fact the WS sounds better if 4.1 runs into 4.4 as both deal with the carp unspecified terms on the PCN.

The rest is fine - well done!

We could do with some help from you.

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Posts #179 lookinforinfo & #182 FTMDave

Thanks. I've...

  1. Added the comments in 2.8 suggested and named the two companies on the signage also.
  2. I've kept the comment 'Nor are they obliged to observe the rules of PoFA'  in 2.8 but haven't included 'Which is why their signs do not comply with the BPA code of Conduct.' Wasn't sure if both, one or neither of these comments should have been included.
  3. Omitted paragraphs 4.2 and 4.3.
  4. 6.6 (double recovery) already asks for the case to be struck out, so haven't repeated this. Assume this was the section you were referring to?

CAG, is there anything else needed to add to the WS? I am keen to amend the details identified in Red to make the final version

Witness statement 17_03_24.pdf

 

Could I have a bit of advice on WS submission please.

As the Notice of Allocation letter advises that

6) Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court offices copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing.

And under the Face to Face hearing section:

You will need to send the judge an electronic bundle 3 days before the hearing via the court office.

Questions:

  1. 14 days before is this Thursday 21st March. Do I send a hard copy of my WS via post to both the Claimant (proof of postage suitable?) and the Court. If so, I expect I need to post this on Tuesday 19th to get there in time? Is that correct? {Even though the court letter states check if you can issue your claim online, I've looked at MCOL website and it doesn't appear I can issue documents for the claim number online}.
  2. Is the electronic bundle mentioned, my Defendants WS issued again to the Court Manager quoting the claim number?
  3. I still have not received the Claimants WS.
  4. I assume I do not need to send anything else, other than the WS.

Many thanks.

 

Just thought.

A hard copy will not have the hyperlinks that an electronic copy allows which I would have thought could assist the Judge/Court in their ease of review.

I could still send a simple hard copy to the Claimant.

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1.  We normally say to e-mail the court and to send the PPC theirs by 2nd class post, which is all they're worth. 

When you e-mail the court make sure you put the claim number, the names of the parties, and "Witness Statement" in the subject field and click on return receipt.  For the leeches' copy get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

2.  Not sure.  These are strange, atypical directions.  Can you please upload the court order.

3.  Good.  You can add a paragraph to yours that you are respecting the court deadlines, while the Claimant is not, and you respectfully ask the court to disallow any late WS from them.

4.  Spot on.

Let me scoff a late-night sarnie and then I'll read through your WS.

We could do with some help from you.

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Your WS is superb.  Well done.

I'm afraid hyperlinks are no use in a WS.  You need to remove them and include the actual quoted reference (which you have done, e.g. 2.6, 2.7, Appendix D).

I've looked at the court order.  I haven''t a clue what this bundle is.  If in doubt send your WS a second time.

We could do with some help from you.

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Many thanks FTM. Just wanting to get it right.

I'll await any final comments from other CAGers tomorrow (Monday) and look to issue/post the WS on Tuesday 19th March. 👍

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36 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

1.  We normally say to e-mail the court and to send the PPC theirs by 2nd class post, which is all they're worth. 

When you e-mail the court make sure you put the claim number, the names of the parties, and "Witness Statement" in the subject field and click on return receipt.  For the leeches' copy get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

you MUST ensure you use the RIGHT court email address, there are TWO systems now running.

old paper claimform CCBC (MCOL) claims issued before aug 2023.

New online CNBC system Moneyclaims

The new Civil National Business Centre replaces CCBC or CCMCC - Court Procedure and General Guidance (mainly England and Wales) - Consumer Action Group

Quote

2.  Not sure.  These are strange, atypical directions

i suspect the OP is reading the new system rules. its 14 days in his case.

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi.

The claim was issued against me on 19/10/2022. 

I therefore assume the email address I use to submit my WS would be:

ccbc@justice.gov.uk

and anything that requires posting would be to the Court Office address at Dartford County Court for the attention of the Court Manager (as noted on the N157 footnote).

Is the email address for submission correct?

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No...you must file at Dartford County Court and serve copies to the claimant.

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We could do with some help from you.

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May be too late with this suggestion but, just spotted something in BPA's COP

SECTION 4. CONDITIONS

4.3 Under the Code you must keep to all the requirements laid down by law. The Code reflects our understanding of the law at the date of publication. However, you are responsible for familiarising yourself with the law on any activities covered by the Code.

I was thinking this may be useful in OP's WS section 5 Illegal signage?

We could do with some help from you.

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Dartford County Court will have its own e-mail address.

It should be on the court order that fixed the hearing.

We could do with some help from you.

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WWW.FIND-COURT-TRIBUNAL.SERVICE.GOV.UK

Dartford County Court and Family Court - Find contact details, opening times, how to get to here, types of cases managed, disabled access to the building

 

We could do with some help from you.

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I've read through it several times and the court order does not stipulate an email address for the court. From the link for civil cases I'm assuming it will be enquiries.dartford.countycourt@justice.gov.uk

All of you. Many thanks for the direction. I'll get the WS issued tomorrow to the Court via email and the Claimant via post.

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I've just been re-checking a few things before issue.

I noticed that the claim on the MCOL website is £275.20 made up as shown below.

The wording in the WS refers to £170.00.

It allegedly increased from £170.00 from Final reminder before legal action to £275.20 when the claim form was issued on 19th October 2022.

I also do not see the £170.00 mentioned in this last breakdown (unless a portion of interest has been added)? Do I need to amend my statement or leave as is?

Amount Claimed
£190.20
Court Fee
£35.00
Solicitor Costs
£50.00
 
 
Total Amount
£275.20
 
57 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

I would call Dartford Court just to be sure.

The only bugbear is that the telephone number quoted is the national enquiries when you are generally on hold for an average of 30 to 40 minutes.

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I would guess the claim is -

£170 + £20.20 interest = £190.20

£35 court fee

£50 legal representative's fees

£275.20 total.

So legit and you don't need to alter your WS.

If things go wrong with the Dartford e-mail address tomorrow you can always send by snail-mail.

Make sure you put a paragraph in your WS that you are respecting the court's deadline for WS service but you are yet to receive one from the Claimant.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Evening All

Just to confirm I posted my WS yesterday (19th March) to the Court and the Claimant. Got proof of posting for both. Also emailed Dartford Court the WS after confirming the correct email address.

I received CEL's witness statement tonight on my return home.

Envelope stamped as signed for (it wasn't) by Royal Mail and cost them £3.61 to deliver 😀.

Apologies but I'm not available to scan the full document in until Tuesday next week but is on nice gsm paper and 36 pages long. Without wanting to entice anyone greatly I'll briefly give comment here:

1. Cover letter again stating if not resolved in the next 7 days (at a value higher than the last letter at £135) they will seek to recover further costs for prep., attendance and travel.

2. Witness statement is from Scott Wilson, Barrister at CEL. 

3. Claimant is a company which provides car park management and enforcement notices to owners of Private Car Parks (PCPs) under written agreement.

4. Claimant states they are a member of BPA and abides with the BPA code of practice for members. I take it from this that ABC may not be a BPA member but CEL are?

5. Placement and content of notices were prominent. Refers to Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106.

6. Liability to pay parking charges and case Parking Eye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67.

7. The driver forms the parking contract with the Claimant, rather than the owner or managing agent of the PCP.

8. Confirmation of Authority to manage the car park attached as Exhibit SW1. I have uploaded this page. I'll let you draw conclusions on this evidence. They never issued this to myself.

9. Provided photographs taken on 22nd April 2019 and confirm that these were all in place on the date in question and remain in place to date. Exhibit SW3 shows the company name on the parking sign photos as 'ABC Car Park Solutions Limited' and also 'ABC Parking Solutions Limited' (which are not 'ABC Facilities Management Limited' from my photos taken 1 month after incident, not 2 years before - they didn't take a photo of the same sign). Neither of these company names could be found on a quick search of companies house.

10. They note the time of stay as 1 hour 48 minutes.

11. Claim cost broken down. £100 (parking charge), £70 (debt recovery and tracing fee and background litigation checks), £20.20 (accrued interest), Total £190.20.

12. Statement of Truth finishes on page 7. Signed and Dated 18th March 2023. The rest of the following pages are 9 exhibits.

13. Exhibit SW7 shows my appeal and comments. I hadn't realised that I'd given them my email, mobile number, correct address on this appeal at this time on 8th May 2021. It is also listed appeal as driver. Uploaded. I also uploaded my receipt as evidence. 

I don't see anything in particular in this WS that concerns me within, but will allow CAG to review this next week in case there are items that need to be drawn out or checked upon. Hopefully Tuesday 26th. Thanks all.

 

POPLA Appeal.pdf CEL Confirmation of Authority.pdf

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25 minutes ago, StoryBoard said:

they will seek to recover further costs for prep., attendance and travel.

2. Witness statement is from Scott Wilson, Barrister at CEL. 

just to p'haps blowout the water the scary though they have a barrister and a barrister costs £100's per hrs and if you lose it will take the claim into the £1000's...tough luck..it's small claims court.  

won't say where as it's embarrassing for them, but a certain websites majority of experts some time ago recommended a defendant in a speculative invoice court claim were the PPC in a letter said they were sending a 'barrister' at a quoted cost of +£3000 to fold whilst the claim was still heading to a potential hearing,.... he didn't and did lose but the PPC only got £90 costs.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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