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Premier/BW ANPR PCN claimform - Overstay - Lldl & PureGym 20 Castle Bridge Rd Notts NG7 IGX - Help with WS ***Claim Dismissed****


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Hi,

 

I have been following a few threads on this forum and the advice given on them, however now I am stuck on how to write a witness statement.

 

I have the need to create a witness statement for my parking fine and have no idea how to do this.

 

To give some context, back in July 2019 I parked where I assumed the car park was 3 hrs, unfortunately it was 2 and my stay was 2.45 mins.

This has led to BW Legal demanding £260. 

I ignored all letters from bw legal until i received a letter from the courts,

I googled and acknowledged the court as well as sending my defence.

 

The car park previously was a free car park for 3hrs and was owned by PC World, Back in 2018 PC world left these premises and the car park remained close until around May 2019 thats when Lidl and PureGym opened up,

 

From what I can remember there were no clear signs on display informing me this car park had a max stay time of 2hrs, its a part of a retail park and usually people spend between 2-3 hrs there. Driving to the car park today there is a pretty clear sign informing drivers that its a max stay of 2 hrs but this was not present in July 2019.

 

I have checked google maps and the latest image (apart from the most recent from april 2022) is Aug 2018 and this was when the car park was blocked off, so how would i go about writing a witness statement ?

 

I see lots of statements where people are adding pics of the car park etc but unfortunately any pics I take will be from now and it is pretty clear that this is a 2hr car park. I don't have access to a Delorean which can reach speeds of up to 88 mph so time travel is out of the question :(

 

I have a court date of August 12 and I need to get my witness statement in before July 15, I have no idea on how to do this :(

 

I have come up with the following so far :


In July 2019 the approach and entrance to the car park had no clear signage stating the max car park was 2 hrs

In July 2019 at the point of entry there was no signage present , any signage with with terms and conditions was neither visible nor readable.

 

This car park had recently opened in May 2019 when new owners Lidl/Pure Gym took over, previously this car park was owned by PC World and had a 3 hr limit.

The area around Lidl/Pure Gym is part of a shopping Village with numerous shops, most people tend to spend 2-3 hrs shopping  which gives them enough time to get around the shops and restaurants.
 
Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Goofa
 

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Hi.

 

I expect the guys will be along to try to help as and when they're able to get here. Perhaps you could post up your defence please and their Particulars of Claim to kick this off? Cover up your personal details. I expect the guys will have other questions.

 

If you don't mind my saying, I can't see that you've read any other PPC threads unless you did that while not signed in. The clue is that you're calling it a 'fine'. You have 10 days to get clued up on this, you have time.

 

HB

 

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Around post 94 (it might be a couple of posts above or below, sometimes the post count goes wonky)  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/441307-vcs-spycar-pcn-claimform-no-stopping-jla-liverpool-airport/page/4/#comments  there is a cracking WS. 

 

There is another around post 81 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/446738-hx-parkinggladstones-ccj-exceeded-1hrs-free-mcdonalds-alma-leisure-park-chesterfield-ccj-issued-thanks-to-useless-parking-fines-ltd-continued/page/4/#comments

 

Now your case may be very different and therefore the legal arguments different - but these WSs are a good example of how to set out your case.

 

Who is suing you anyway?  It's not BW Legal, they are just dodgy solicitors who represent the PPCs.  Who is the claimant?

We could do with some help from you.

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please complete this:

 

then we can help you PEOPERLY.

 

you say you've been following threads here

 

NOWHERE do we ever say to go into that kind of detail in a defence and play your cards early....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK, Premier Parking.  So your arguments need to be, more or less -

 

NO LOCUS STANDI - Premier Park aren't the landowner, you don't believe they have the right to bring the claim.

KEEPER LIABILITY - Premier Park are suing the keeper of the vehicle, not the driver.  Have they established keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act?

PLANNING PERMISSION - you don't believe they have PP either for their signs nor to reduce the free parking time from three hours to two hours.

DUAL RECOVERY - you can lift from the two WSs I indicated all the bits about the PPC inventing extra sums, as they all do this.

 

Have you looked up Planning Permission?

 

When you filed your defence did you send the fleecers a CPR request?

 

I've cross posted with dx.  dx is spot on.  Please fill in the sticky and upload the paperwork.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Premier/BW ANPR PCN claimform - Help needed with Witness statement

and its not a fine either

 

you've omitted to tell us the location too.

and did you get a letter of claim

and did you send a CPR 31:14?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,

 

Apologies for not reading the stickies and diving in! I have provided the info requested

 

*******

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

MCOL Northampton N1


If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)
Its in post 3 above

 

Name of the Claimant :
Premier Parking Limited
48 Queensgate House
Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR
 

Claimants Solicitors: (if one is stated)
BW Legal
Enterprise House
1 Apex View
Leeds
LS11 9BH
 

Date of issue – 3 Dec 2021

 

Date to submit Defence -  17/12/2021

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The claim is for the sum of £117.70 being due from the defendant in respect of a parking charge notice (PCN) for a contractual breach which occurred on 2/7/19 in the private car park/lat at Lidl & PureGym Nottingham - Lidl & Puregym 20 Castle Bridge Road Nottingham NG7.


2.The PCN was issued as the driver failed to comply with the terms and conditions as displayed. 


3.Despite demands, the charge remains unpaid.

 

4.The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of £0.02) from 2/7/19 to 2/12/21 being an amount of £17.70. 


The claimant also claims £60.00 recovery costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions and in the ATA AoS Code of Practice.


What is the value of the claim?


Amount Claimed 177.70

court fees 35.00
 
legal rep fees 50.00

Total Amount 262.70

*******

 

I have attached the CPR31:14, BW Legals response to CPR, and the letter of claim.

 

ok combined the docs into a pdf now.

letter-of-claim-combined.pdf

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Premier/BW ANPR PCN claimform - Overstay - Lldl & PureGym 20 Castle Bridge Rd Notts NG7 IGX - Help with WS

planning permission too.

i bet the org granted was 3hrs, no-one can change that with council perm.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

The Letter of Claim is there but what about the original PCN?  We need to see if they sent it out in time to create keeper liability.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Posted (edited)

Attached  PCN

pcn.pdf

 

I have just had a look at the retail parks website  and it does mention 3 hrs free parking. Why would a car park in the same area, advertised as the part of the same retail park allow only 2 hrs and the rest are 3hrs ? 

WWW.CASTLEMARINASHOPPING.COM

Castle Marina Retail Park Nottingham | Shopping for furniture, carpets, kitchens, technology, pregnancy, mothers, children, babies | High street stores | 3 hour free parking

 

Edited by goofa316
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I have seen a planning application for Lidl's in Feb 2017 which states that there is a 3 hour  waiting time permitted there. I cannot post it here as there is too short a time before the URL  shuts down. I did not see any later application to amend that time. So the likely reason is that  Premier have altered the time themselves which is a breach of Council planning. Perhaps a letter of complaint to the Council would help your case.

 

The PCN is not compliant as it only shows the time of arrival and departure which cannot be the parking time . So it fails the parking period requirement.

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screen print

or print to PDF

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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just be a bit cute here

the exact address they are putting in the particulars of claim...from the claimform please

 

castle marina 

castle road

etc are all slightly differing areas if you use a bit of fun on google maps/earth

and look at the addresses for the businesses quoted.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The address on the claim form is :

 

Lidl & PureGym

20 Castle Bridge Road

Nottingham

NG7

 

I have also checked the planning permission on Nottinghamshire county councils site and have attached the car park management plan for the site, on section 5.5 it mentions all car park users will be eligible to park for free for up to 2 hrs .

 

 

 

CAR_PARK_MANAGEMENT_PLAN-1361830.PDF

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Most of the other points in post 7 stand though, as well as everything you mentioned about their signage being carp.

We could do with some help from you.

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On first reading that is superb work.  Well done.

 

Not let's go through it with a fine tooth comb ...

We could do with some help from you.

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After the comb ...

 

Is 2.12 relevant?  You say you don't have photos of the signs.  I remember drafting this for a different car park.

 

3.2.d has to go.  Prohibition isn't relevant to this case.

 

Section 4 looks good, but - make sure your PCN really does have these deficiencies.

 

In your section 5 repeat the stuff in 3.1.a and 3.2.c.  Yes, it's repetitive, but it hammers home that they are not the landowner and have refused to prove they have the authority to bring the claim.

We could do with some help from you.

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Go to  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice#signs-and-surface-markings  and scroll down to 3.4.

 

How about using parts of the government's CoP to beef up your INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE section?

 

You could point out that you recognise that the government's CoP hadn't been published in 2019, however it shows reasonable & best practice, which is for the companies to underline when a new parking system is in play so regular users do not get caught out.

 

You could also point out that such predatory practices are not allowed in the British Parking Association's Code of Practice, which Premier Parking has signed up to.

 

BTW, the fleecers haven't sent you their WS yet, right?

 

BTW 2, it will turn up by snail mail, you haven't given them an e-mail address, right?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Thanks for the advice, In regards to the governments CoP.. it seems this has been withdrawn ? 

WWW.GOV.UK

The Code of Practice sets out the requirements that private parking operators must follow when enforcing parking restrictions in England, Scotland and Wales.

 

Should i still try to use it anyway ?

 

and No the fleecers havent sent their WS yet and no they dont have my email.

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its showing the way things will go...useful to you.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Well spotted.

 

We probably need to discuss the government's CoP on the site, as the legal situation changes by the the minute.

 

However, my view is this.  The government started to regulate the industry in 2019 and then the CoP was published in February.

 

In every single WS by the various fleecers, we've seen nothing about the CoP or any recognition whatsoever about government regulation.  They simply refuse to recognise this change.

 

Very, very recently it's been withdrawn as it's being challenged over (a) the amount of parking charges and (b) the Unicorn Food Tax.  However, I'm unsure who is involved in the legal challenge.

 

Therefore I think it is extremely unlikely that they will jump out in your case and say "the CoP said this in February but now in July it's under legal challenge!"  Especially as at your hearing - if it goes that far - you won't have anyone from Premier Parking, you'll have some hapless local solicitor living near your local court who won't have a clue about the case.

 

If the worst came to the worst you would recognise in court that the legal situation had changed since you wrote your WS - but I can't see that happening.

 

Let's see what the other regulars think.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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If you read the Vectos car park plan carefully it does not say that permission was granted. It does say that permission was granted for them to make an application. I can see no record on the planning portal that the parking was agreed for 2 hours. I think you should contact the Planning dept using Vectos's application numbers and see if they were ever approved as these were done back in 2018before Lidl was even open.

Alternatively put  Premier Park to strict proof that their application was approved and the length of stay confirmed since the Council looked at them in SEP 2018 which was several months before Lidl opened.

 

After Lidl had their personal signage and the Gym had their personal signage approved in early 2019, there is no planning approval after that  for ANPR cameras or car parking.

 

   
   
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  • brassnecked changed the title to Premier/BW ANPR PCN claimform - Overstay - Lldl & PureGym 20 Castle Bridge Rd Notts NG7 IGX - Help with WS *** Won in Court ****
  • Andyorch changed the title to Premier/BW ANPR PCN claimform - Overstay - Lldl & PureGym 20 Castle Bridge Rd Notts NG7 IGX - Help with WS ***Claim Dismissed****

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