Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • get rid of the car and sue under a scottish claim for transportation costs.
    • Tariffs could add £3bn to the cost of importing food and drink from the EU, a leading retail body warns. View the full article
    • China plans a digital version of its currency, which some say could become a big global payment system. View the full article
    • nothing new always been that way for 25+yrs now i had voip lines with NTL back in the late 90's which is why a real trucall box or a handset with real truecall software in it is SO good.   on average i get about 25-35 of these calls a month NONE get thru  the ones that spoof UK or mobile numbers are still screened are easily dealt with the truecall system   if they are real, the only thing they have to do is speak and you get an alert ring to listen to whom call with the option to accept or ZZapp them. once zapped that number never gets thru again.   its worthy to note that the scammers only ever use disconnected numbers, or fake numbers after a known local UK dialling code well the truecall software already knows these numbers as it gets the same databases the scammers use. if the number doesnt come up on the fake/disconnected list, it also then checks if the UK number is listed active UK and will auto put people thru   very clever little device worth every penny and mine is from 2006 when i joined CAG.
    • No the info on comms log isn't quite right,   I hadn't worked since Xmas due to bereavement but I wasn't staying in Somerset since the Xmas. The comms log is very deceitful indeed and after I had finished evaluating it fully I came to the conclusion MB are very manipulative, they lie, cheat and twist the truth, but it only takes the slightest slip up and everything crumbles.   You see in order for MB to have taken any further steps they have to be entitled to take them. So when they lie and try to deceive the truth prevails 😊, so to send a copy of a Default Sums Notice dated 15/1/17 that doesn't exist on the log anywhere and Ive never had the original and then fail to include one in the SAR that is listed on the log as generated on 18/1/17 (not had this one either)  doesn't the consequence of that 1 act prevent them from any further action until the notices are served    86 (e) Notice of default sums (5)If the creditor or owner fails to give the debtor or hirer the notice under this section within the period mentioned in subsection (2), he shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement until the notice is given to the debtor or hirer.       But I am reducing the complaint and sticking to basics
  • Our picks

    • @curryspcworld @TeamKnowhowUK - Samsung 75 8K TV - completely broken by Currys. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426151-samsung-75-8k-tv-completely-broken-by-currys/&do=findComment&comment=5069075
      • 4 replies
    • @skinnyfoodco Skinny Foods. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426130-skinny-foods/&do=findComment&comment=5068996
      • 8 replies
    • I’m in desperate need of help
       
      I bought some clothes online in may through Evans and paid through PayPal
      returned them all seven days later
       
      I waited the 14days for my refund and no refund came
      I put in a dispute through PayPal but I didn’t get any emails to escalate the case - PayPal closed it. 
      evans said they couldn’t refund the money because PayPal have cancelled the refund because of the open dispute
       
      I contacted PayPal
      they said the dispute had been closed but Evans at no point had attempted a refund.
      fast forward to today
       
      I’ve got copies of numerous messages sent to and from twitter messages as it’s the only way I can contact them
      I’ve also contacted their customer service too
      all I get is PayPal have cancelled refund because dispute is still open.
       
      I have proved that the dispute is closed
      I have got an email saying that if Evans sent the refund they would accept it
      but up until the date I got the email they have not once attempted a refund .
       
       I have sent them a letter before court email
      I have even offered to have the full refund as a gift card just to get this sorted !
       
      I’m literally at the end of my tether and don’t know where to turn next !
       
      i suffer with mental health issues and this is affecting my health and I’d saved the money for a year to buy these clothes as I’m on a low income .
    • In desperate need of help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/425244-in-desperate-need-of-help/&do=findComment&comment=5067040
      • 29 replies

What equates to a reasonable offer?


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 5033 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

I am a customer of Lloyds TSB, I am in the process taking out a small claims against Lloyds using the downloaded template, however I need to find out more in depth information about the law.

 

1. What percentage of the initial claim is accepted as an reasonable offer by Lloyds before it goes to court?

2. If I refuse a 'reasonable offer' and demand full payment, can the judge throw my case out of court?

3. Can I claim compensation on top of what I am asking back in charges, for example; loss of earnings, stress related?

4. I have been quoted that an 'unlawful act', is one being without legal justification, I need more clarification of this statement and examples of this act in case history? To me they are not breaking any law, but not adhering to guidelines, can anyone makes this clear?

5. The Unfair Terms (1999) refers to a penalty charge, Are these charges in fact service charges, could someone please clarify and give an example?

6. Could someone give an example of'supply of goods & service act (1982) used successfully in a court of law similiar to 'bank charges"?

7. No bank has gone to court, is that because all claimants have accepted offers? What if you refuse such an offer, does a hearing still take place whether the defendant is there or not?

 

Thank-you

 

Stewart

Link to post
Share on other sites

1. What percentage of the initial claim is accepted as an reasonable offer by Lloyds before it goes to court? 100%. It's a simple monetary claim, there is no reason to accept less.

2. If I refuse a 'reasonable offer' and demand full payment, can the judge throw my case out of court? No, for same reasons as above.

3. Can I claim compensation on top of what I am asking back in charges, for example; loss of earnings, stress related? Short answer, no.

4. I have been quoted that an 'unlawful act', is one being without legal justification, I need more clarification of this statement and examples of this act in case history? To me they are not breaking any law, but not adhering to guidelines, can anyone makes this clear? You need to read and understand the law relating to penalty charges. It is all in the Library. But in short, contract law states that the parties can only recover their costs caused by the other party's breach. Anything wildly beyond this is a penalty, and penalties are unlawful at British law.

 

5. The Unfair Terms (1999) refers to a penalty charge, Are these charges in fact service charges, could someone please clarify and give an example? Explain, this doesn't make sense. If it is a penalty (eg disproportionate to their loss, and imposed by them, with no choice to opt-out) it can not be a service. An ATM charge would be a service, as you can choose to go to an non-fee charging ATM, for example.

6. Could someone give an example of'supply of goods & service act (1982) used successfully in a court of law similiar to 'bank charges"? Too broad a scope, I suggest you Google it, and see what that throws.

 

7. No bank has gone to court, is that because all claimants have accepted offers? What if you refuse such an offer, does a hearing still take place whether the defendant is there or not? You can't do that, once they have offered to settle in full, including your court costs and interest, you have to withdraw your claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone

 

Just in the process of going via the small claims court claiming back charges from Lloyds, however I am not a lawyer, don't think I need to be anyway because Lloyds will never turn up in court anyway, however I do need back up and research.

 

1. What is a reasonable offer? What percentage of the initial claim is acceptable and do I have to accept this without jeopardising my case? I have heard rumours that the judge can throw a case out because of the latter.

2. What is an 'unlawful act', my definition is one being without legal justification, does that mean the Banks are not acting illegally? Any case histories?

3. The 'Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Reg (1999) relates to a penalty charge, my worry is that the Banks can argue against the term 'penalty' and refer to 'SERVICE CHARGE', Can someone eleborate on this please and give any examples?

4. So the Banks have never defended any'Bank charge' claim, is this because all claimants have accepted offers? If however, I refused and demanded full amount and compensation would the hearing still go ahead despite the defendant attending or not? Can a judge rule in favour in absence of the defendant?

5. So, what are we claiming against? Are we challenging the Banks purely on the refund of our money or challeging them on breaking the Contract and acting 'inlawful'? Can you challenge the claiment on just the latter only, regardless of any offers?

 

Excuse my spelling and look forward to talking

 

Stewart

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello everyone

 

Just in the process of going via the small claims court claiming back charges from Lloyds, however I am not a lawyer, don't think I need to be anyway because Lloyds will never turn up in court anyway, however I do need back up and research.

 

1. What is a reasonable offer? What percentage of the initial claim is acceptable and do I have to accept this without jeopardising my case? I have heard rumours that the judge can throw a case out because of the latter.

2. What is an 'unlawful act', my definition is one being without legal justification, does that mean the Banks are not acting illegally? Any case histories?

3. The 'Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Reg (1999) relates to a penalty charge, my worry is that the Banks can argue against the term 'penalty' and refer to 'SERVICE CHARGE', Can someone eleborate on this please and give any examples?

4. So the Banks have never defended any'Bank charge' claim, is this because all claimants have accepted offers? If however, I refused and demanded full amount and compensation would the hearing still go ahead despite the defendant attending or not? Can a judge rule in favour in absence of the defendant?

5. So, what are we claiming against? Are we challenging the Banks purely on the refund of our money or challeging them on breaking the Contract and acting 'inlawful'? Can you challenge the claiment on just the latter only, regardless of any offers?

 

Excuse my spelling and look forward to talking

 

Stewart

 

Hello I can answer all your questions in a simple sentence: Its your money and you are quite within your rights to reclaim all of it.

 

Banks have not been to court because they dont have a leg to stand on, and they know it.

Stick to your guns and they will refund all of the unlawful charges.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone

 

Just in the process of going via the small claims court claiming back charges from Lloyds, however I am not a lawyer, don't think I need to be anyway because Lloyds will never turn up in court anyway, however I do need back up and research.

 

1. What is a reasonable offer? What percentage of the initial claim is acceptable and do I have to accept this without jeopardising my case? I have heard rumours that the judge can throw a case out because of the latter.

2. What is an 'unlawful act', my definition is one being without legal justification, does that mean the Banks are not acting illegally? Any case histories?

3. The 'Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Reg (1999) relates to a penalty charge, my worry is that the Banks can argue against the term 'penalty' and refer to 'SERVICE CHARGE', Can someone eleborate on this please and give any examples?

4. So the Banks have never defended any'Bank charge' claim, is this because all claimants have accepted offers? If however, I refused and demanded full amount and compensation would the hearing still go ahead despite the defendant attending or not? Can a judge rule in favour in absence of the defendant?

5. So, what are we claiming against? Are we challenging the Banks purely on the refund of our money or challeging them on breaking the Contract and acting 'inlawful'? Can you challenge the claiment on just the latter only, regardless of any offers?

 

Excuse my spelling and look forward to talking

 

Stewart

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry, I am going ahead, but I was on 'This is money' forum and had a toatally different reponse from people, some saying that you should keep your accounts in an orderly fashion and this would never happen. I gave as good as I got!

Anyway, the Banks can legally charge, which I work out at about £4.50, this amount truly refects the cost. I don't mind paying charges if it falls into that calculation. So I am not against the bank charge but the 'contract' that they have broken, what they have done is unethical & unlawful. I want them in court over the 'contract issue' regardless of how much they want to compensate me. If they have wriiten calculations to justify their charges, I will be happy to listen to them in court.

 

Stewart

Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't worry, I am going ahead, but I was on 'This is money' forum and had a toatally different reponse from people, some saying that you should keep your accounts in an orderly fashion and this would never happen. I gave as good as I got!

Anyway, the Banks can legally charge, which I work out at about £4.50, this amount truly refects the cost. I don't mind paying charges if it falls into that calculation. So I am not against the bank charge but the 'contract' that they have broken, what they have done is unethical & unlawful. I want them in court over the 'contract issue' regardless of how much they want to compensate me. If they have wriiten calculations to justify their charges, I will be happy to listen to them in court.

 

Stewart

 

You will not get a bank into court or get disclosure regarding the actual breakdown of costs. They will settle in full first, once they offer you the full amount you can not legally refuse it.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Stewart welcome to the forum,

 

In answer to your questions:

 

1. A reasonable offer? - that is really up to the individual, however most agree 100% is the only reasonable offer and I would agree.

 

2. We are not dealing with criminal law therefore the banks are not doing anything illegal. We are dealing witgh civil law, therefore we use the term unlawful.

 

3. Read up on the sample case law included on the bank template page. In the case of Lord Elphinstone v. Monkland Iron and Coal Co [1886], Lord Watson stated that: "There is a presumption (but no more) that a charge is a penalty when a single lump sum is made payable by way of compensation, on the occurrence of one or more or all of several events, some of which may occasion serious and others but trifling damage".

 

4. Banks have settled all claims. If you stick to your guns you will get all charges back. Some people have accepted smaller sums to speed up repayment. It can be quite a waiting game.

 

5. You are asking for repayment of charges because the bank's system of default charges is unlawful.

HBOS Plc - £9,954.65 Received partial settlement - Court 6/12/06 default removal / compensation / declaration

MBNA - Settled in full £2,377.33

Abbey National - MoneyClaim filed 26/06/2006 £883.90

Lloyds TSB - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £2,630.00

Egg.com - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £1,393.60

GE Money - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £965.22

Link to post
Share on other sites
Why cannot I refuse the offer?

 

Because they have paid you in full. What else do you want?

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
What if I add compensation on top?

 

Unfortunately you can't go adding compensation on top of your amount - especially after you've filed your claim. :)

 

Good luck. Lucid :)

 

PS: The MODS can change thread titles for you - and they will also merge threads for you. ;) You just need to PM them.

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are really just due your charges back with interest and court fees.

 

The exception would be if you could prove that you have encountered further expense due to the taking of these charges.

 

For example if the bank forced you into taking a loan to pay for the charges you may have a claim for the cost of the loan (the interest paid).

HBOS Plc - £9,954.65 Received partial settlement - Court 6/12/06 default removal / compensation / declaration

MBNA - Settled in full £2,377.33

Abbey National - MoneyClaim filed 26/06/2006 £883.90

Lloyds TSB - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £2,630.00

Egg.com - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £1,393.60

GE Money - Claim Filed 11/08/2006 £965.22

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 threads merged. Why post the same post in 3 different places?

 

In future, please stay on one thread per claim. It will save lots of people all giving you answers, and will help you keeping track of your claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Bookworm has already covered all your questions pretty comprehensively in post 2.

 

You are really just due your charges back with interest and court fees.

 

The exception would be if you could prove that you have encountered further expense due to the taking of these charges.

 

For example if the bank forced you into taking a loan to pay for the charges you may have a claim for the cost of the loan (the interest paid).

 

This would be consequential losses. If you go down this road expect the bank to defend that part of the claim more vigorously than usual, which could possibly lead to a court appearence. Its fairly uncharted territory as far as bank charges claims go. You have a right to claim for it if you wanted to I suppose, but any losses you claimed for would have to be clearly quantifiable as a direct consequence of the unlawful charges. Evidance would be needed to substantiate the link.

 

Its discussed in this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/33880-stress-inconvenience.html#post264857. Follow the link in my post (no 6) to Bean's thread, who also claimed for consequential losses.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...