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    • I suggest you start reading around this forum about the steps involved in taking a small claim in the County Court. It's very straightforward but you should understand the steps before embarking on it so that you are confident. We will help you all the way. Once you have done this basic reading then come back here and we can begin the process if you are happy to go ahead. On the basis of what you say, I expect that your chances are better than 90%. I also expect that West Cheshire Facilities Management will want to put their hands up before it goes to court and get a judgement against them. We would want to see your letter of claim before it sent off but I suggest that it is made clear that Social Security's have already been informed and that when you get a judgement against West Cheshire Facilities Management, you will make sure that social services and the health service generally are all circulated with copies of the judgement. If West Cheshire Facilities Management really want to take that risk with all of the reputational and business risk that accompanies it, then they are being extremely shortsighted.
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    • Yes, it has been cleaned now - it had to be, he came out of hospital at the end of December, and Friend has secured the services of a local cleaning company to come in once a week.  
    • Following the issue of a Liability Order the Council must obtain a warrant of control to try to collect the debt. If they fail their only option is to return the matter to court and you will be asked to attend.   At that hearing the court must be satisfied that:   • A liability order was imposed in relation to the debt. • You have failed to pay; and • The council tried to collect the sum using a warrant of control, and failed.   They must then go on to conduct a "means enquiry" into your financial circumstances. The principle aim of that is firstly to establish whether you had demonstrated either a wilful refusal to pay (i.e. you had sufficient funds but simply refused to pay) or "culpable neglect" (i.e. you had the funds but chose to spend them on something else). Only if they find one of those two can commitment to prison (either immediate or postponed) be considered. Also, only if they find one of those two can they order payments to meet the debt. The usual combination is an order to make payments coupled with a postponed commitment. But, the payment rate must be realistic in terms of your financial circumstances and it should normally mean that the debt is paid within three years. If a realistic payment rate will not see the debt paid in that period then the court should consider remitting (i.e. writing off) some or all of the debt. Similarly, if they find neither wilful refusal to pay nor culpable neglect (and by default find that you simply did not have the ability to pay) they should also consider remitting some or all of the debt.   You should note that at these commitment proceedings, as the matters you face could result in custody, you are entitled to have the services of the duty solicitor. In your circumstances I would say the chances of you being committed to prison are slightly less than zero. From your very brief description of your finances you simply have no spare money (though a means enquiry will delve more deeply into your affairs, especially the debts for which the DWP are making deductions from your benefits). There is no point in delaying any of this. The sooner it gets sorted the better as your circumstances seem unlikely to change any time soon. One thing you must bear in mind is that these proceedings will only deal with the debt covered by the Liability Order. If you have any Council Tax arrears that have accrued since then they will have to be dealt with separately. I'm also assuming you live in England. Since April 2019 commitment to prison has not been an option in Wales.    
    • good issued the default after you turned 50 when any payment is not longer required on the loans and they should be written off.   it's fast becoming clear that they solely refused your SLC forms as a mode of deferring to create this whole falsehood.   the case your refer to about the new forms is detailed in this form in many SLC erudio threads.   if you could go get a USB converter lead to make your old HDD drives readable from amazon or somewhere , cheap as chips and <£5.
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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I won! Oh and there's an article in the paper about it!


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Hi all,

Been a lurker on here for a while, but this is my first post.

I'm about to process my claim against Lloyds and wanted to check that I've got the wording right for the claim details section. I've searched the net and come up with this from help from various sites:

 

"The Defendant has imposed several charges between £20 and £70 (totaling £745) each time the Claimant has exceeded her overdraft limit or had a payment returned unpaid. These charges represent a penalty and do not accurately reflect the Defendant's administration costs. Further, they are contrary to the Unfair (Contract) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. para. 8 and sch. 2(1)(e). Further or alternatively, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 09/11/2001 to 20/09/2006 of £348.40 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.16p. The Claimant claims £120 costs."

 

Does that sound right? I'm also a little unsure asd to whether I've calculated my interest accurately. Anybody feeling in a charitable moond and fancies given me a bit of advice?! I'd be ever so grateful!

 

Thanks in advance,

Nena

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Here are the particulars of the claim you should add in:

 

Claimant has account (A/C No-sort code) with Defendant from (Date a/c opened)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of (£0.00 = amount of charges claimed) taken by Defendant in charges over (X) years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date of 1st charge) to (Date of filing claim) of (£0.00 =The interest in the 8% spreadsheet calculation) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00p = Amount of charges claimed x 0.00022).

 

Hope this helps you. Good Luck.

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

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Hi Nena, welcome to the Lloyds forum!

 

Either is fine IMO. If you do use the first one though, I'd add in that they are contrary to the common law. I would suggest adding it in after "are a penalty and do not reflect the defendant admin costs. As such, they are contrary to the common law" If you need to save space you could get rid of the word "Further". Just "alternativly" will do. No need to add the "claimant claims £120 costs" either. Thats automatically implied anyway, no need to state it further.

 

Having said that, remember that the template has been successfully used hundreds of times over, so you may be as well just to use that, or even better, file an N1 at your local court. Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

 

Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Gary

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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You're a star!!!

I think I'll use Orfoster's wording as it seems to read better.

Thank you for clarifying the interest out for me too. Was still worried about that.

 

Thank you both. Will keep you updated!

Nena

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Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

 

No, Nena was right first time. The daily rate is worked without the 8% s/s calculation, just on your charges. Otherwise you are charging 8% on 8%

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As I understand it, the interest is worked out on the resulting total. If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim. If you look into this I'm sure you will find that its right. Its not on top of it as such, its further to it.

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim.

 

Your claim is for the charges, which is made up of lots of different amounts dating from different dates, which is why you need the spreadsheet to make each separate calculation to bring them all into line at the date of issuing your claim. At that point you can do one calculation on the total of the charges to find the daily rate.

 

Try this. Open your spreadsheet and change the date by 1 day. the resulting difference in the 8% column is your daily rate.

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I'm going to see if I can get definate clarification on this. I don't mind being proved wrong, but I've always worked it out on the resulting total.

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There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I think MB is right on this one. You work out 8% based on charges + interest incurred on charges. You cant add 8% then work out a daily rate based on the total.

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

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Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations. In that case then I've always claimed to much. oops! Still, its always been paid without being picked up on, shows how much notice the banks take I s'pose.

 

I am I right in thinking then that the daily rate would be worked out on the resulting total if contractual interest were being claimed?

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi Gary,

 

Yes that's right if you're compounding the interest. We calculated a daily interest rate for all of our resulting totals so the effect is the interest is no longer compounding since we submitted our claims, but it won't make a lot of difference and we thought that it could get very complicated to work out otherwise.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Still, its always been paid without being picked up on, shows how much notice the banks take I s'pose.

 

 

Probably because they're so grateful that the contractual rate isn't being claimed!! Or as you say they're just m*pp*ts

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There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid :)

 

To clarify the "interest you are entitled to claim back" that Lucid mentions is interest you have paid to the bank that you wouldnt have paid had you not been charged - not the s69 8% interest.

 

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations.

 

btw I'm no expert in this field, I only know about this because I had to research it when I made my spreadsheet. I'd never even heard of compound interest this time 3 months ago! If you think i'm wrong, tell me, cos the chances are you're right! Having said that in this case I am right :razz:

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

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Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

Right, I've submitted my claim, thanks for all your help!

 

One question, how do I go about sending my spreadsheet of costs to the court? I claimed online, but I don't see an address or instructions on how to do this.

 

Thanks in advance!

Nena

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Hi Nena,

 

I think you have to wait until you get your claim through in the post. This will have your claim number and a court address - I think. We submitted N1 forms so I'm going on information I've read elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure you can't send anything until you have your claim number through.

 

Good luck. Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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As Lucid says - best to wait till you get your claim number back. You can then email Northampton CC with a copy of your Schedule of Charges and the claim number, and they can attach it to your file :)

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Hi,

 

I filed my claim on MCOL. Had heard about Lloyds using this defence so waited for my claim details to come through in the post and sent a copy of the schedule to Northampton bulk centre. Included a covering letter with my claim number and a couple of sentences along the lines of 'I respectfully request this schedule be added to the case file for claim xxxxxxxx.'

 

Sure enough when the defence came through there was a copy of the schedule attached by the courts. Also copied SCM lawyers and made sure this was clear in the letter to the court.

 

SCM put in the defence that there was no schedule of charges and it was great fun writing back stating that they and Lloyds had both had scedules before the defence was entered so I couldn't understand what exactly their point was?!

 

Matt

11/07/2006 - First request sent

21/07/2006 - Standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

25/07/2006 - Letter before action sent

01/08/2006 - Second standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

03/08/2006 - Claim started through moneyclaim for sum of £1756.26

04/08/2006 - Claim issued by moneyclaim

09/08/2006 - Claim served by moneyclaim

06/09/2006 - Defence entered

25/09/2006 - AQ returned (no Lloyds AQ yet)

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You should get your claim number as soon as you press 'submit' on Moneyclaim. If you did'nt make a note of it, go back and have a look. Here's the letter I send when claiming on MCOL.

(YOUR ADDRESS)

 

 

 

 

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

 

(DATE)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(YOU) –v- (BANK)

Claim No: ********

 

I have today requested the issue of a County Court claim via the Moneyclaim online service, details as above.

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of the money taken from me by the defendant bank by way of charges, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached with the particulars of my claim.

 

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

(YOU)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks Gary!

 

I've just realised that I've way over estimated my interest.

I had my first charge on the 9th November 2001, with the total amount of charges to date being £745.

Instead of calculating 09/11/01 - 09/11/05 (being four years @ £59.60 a year interest), then the 213 days x 0.16p between 09/11/05 to the date of the submitted claim, I've done it at 59.60 x five years! Does that make sense?

So instead of claiming £272.48 interest, I've claimed £348.40.... I'm such a wally!

I'm not sure what to do about my schedule now. I worked the interest out using the total amount of charges and not by each since charge, so I didn't use the spreadsheet to start off with.

I have a schedule, but without the interest on top. Would that do to send to the court?

I hope I'm making sense.... I can't figure out what I mean anymore! Sorry....

And thanks again.

 

Nena

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Just thought I should write a quick message to say that I've filed my claim, had an acknowledgment from Lloyds and they have until 27th October to defend their claim. Haven't had the AQ yet, but will be searching the forum for advice when it comes!

Been reading Reload's thread on his first Lloyds claim, so feel reassured a little.

I'm claiming £1213.40 and hope I'll get it before the Christmas shopping frenzy starts!

Bank's Solicitors are Sechiari Clark and Mitchel, has that been the same for all the claims or do they use more than one solicitors? Anyone had any first hand experience with them?

 

Thanks to all those who helped me out in my first post and good luck to you all!

 

Nena

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Hi Nena your at the same stage as me, SCM have until 26th to defend my claim and from what i can gather they wait until the very last second to file there defence, then they can say they are unable to attend court during a certain period ie october, november etc etc, this is just buying them time before they ahve to pay out, i also hopeful to have mine in the bank by christmas but i'm not betting on it thats for sure,

 

best of luck

christina:-D

 

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hi there, have just registered and am quite excited by it all. I too will be trying to claim my charges with lloyds tsb. Good luck and let me know how you get on. Just a quick question though... did you send your iniatial letter to the head office address or your local branch?

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I sent all correspondance to "Lloyds TSB Bank PLC, 25 Gresham Street, London. EC2V 7HN". Its their registered office and got prompt replies from them too.

 

Christina, they acknowledge my claim on the same day as yours, so we really are going to be claiming buddies! lol Lets hope they don't mess us about too much.

 

Thank you both for the well wishes and good luck!!

 

Nena

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all,

Today is Lloyds last day they can enter a defence. Its the 28th day so technically their time is out, but just rang money claim and they recommend holding off until tomorrow to enter a judgement (if the gits don't enter their defence today of course).

Keep yer fingers crossed for me!

The guy on the phone also had a little giggle at my claim number as it has 666 in it... Reckon he's a bit of a devil worshiper... Or at least a D fan!! ;-)

Take care

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