I won! Oh and there's an article in the paper about it!

[Nenastar]

Hi all,

Been a lurker on here for a while, but this is my first post.

I'm about to process my claim against Lloyds and wanted to check that I've got the wording right for the claim details section. I've searched the net and come up with this from help from various sites:

 

"The Defendant has imposed several charges between £20 and £70 (totaling £745) each time the Claimant has exceeded her overdraft limit or had a payment returned unpaid. These charges represent a penalty and do not accurately reflect the Defendant's administration costs. Further, they are contrary to the Unfair (Contract) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. para. 8 and sch. 2(1)(e). Further or alternatively, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 09/11/2001 to 20/09/2006 of £348.40 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.16p. The Claimant claims £120 costs."

 

Does that sound right? I'm also a little unsure asd to whether I've calculated my interest accurately. Anybody feeling in a charitable moond and fancies given me a bit of advice?! I'd be ever so grateful!

 

Thanks in advance,

Nena

[orfoster]

Here are the particulars of the claim you should add in:

 

Claimant has account (A/C No-sort code) with Defendant from (Date a/c opened)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of (£0.00 = amount of charges claimed) taken by Defendant in charges over (X) years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date of 1st charge) to (Date of filing claim) of (£0.00 =The interest in the 8% spreadsheet calculation) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00p = Amount of charges claimed x 0.00022).

 

Hope this helps you. Good Luck.

[GaryH]

Hi Nena, welcome to the Lloyds forum!

 

Either is fine IMO. If you do use the first one though, I'd add in that they are contrary to the common law. I would suggest adding it in after "are a penalty and do not reflect the defendant admin costs. As such, they are contrary to the common law" If you need to save space you could get rid of the word "Further". Just "alternativly" will do. No need to add the "claimant claims £120 costs" either. Thats automatically implied anyway, no need to state it further.

 

Having said that, remember that the template has been successfully used hundreds of times over, so you may be as well just to use that, or even better, file an N1 at your local court. Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

 

Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Gary

[Nenastar]

You're a star!!!

I think I'll use Orfoster's wording as it seems to read better.

Thank you for clarifying the interest out for me too. Was still worried about that.

 

Thank you both. Will keep you updated!

Nena

[Michael Browne]

Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

 

No, Nena was right first time. The daily rate is worked without the 8% s/s calculation, just on your charges. Otherwise you are charging 8% on 8%

[GaryH]

As I understand it, the interest is worked out on the resulting total. If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim. If you look into this I'm sure you will find that its right. Its not on top of it as such, its further to it.

[Michael Browne]

If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim.

 

Your claim is for the charges, which is made up of lots of different amounts dating from different dates, which is why you need the spreadsheet to make each separate calculation to bring them all into line at the date of issuing your claim. At that point you can do one calculation on the total of the charges to find the daily rate.

 

Try this. Open your spreadsheet and change the date by 1 day. the resulting difference in the 8% column is your daily rate.

[GaryH]

I'm going to see if I can get definate clarification on this. I don't mind being proved wrong, but I've always worked it out on the resulting total.

[lucid]

There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid

[Mindzai]

I think MB is right on this one. You work out 8% based on charges + interest incurred on charges. You cant add 8% then work out a daily rate based on the total.

[GaryH]

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations. In that case then I've always claimed to much. oops! Still, its always been paid without being picked up on, shows how much notice the banks take I s'pose.

 

I am I right in thinking then that the daily rate would be worked out on the resulting total if contractual interest were being claimed?

[lucid]

Hi Gary,

 

Yes that's right if you're compounding the interest. We calculated a daily interest rate for all of our resulting totals so the effect is the interest is no longer compounding since we submitted our claims, but it won't make a lot of difference and we thought that it could get very complicated to work out otherwise.

 

Lucid

[Michael Browne]

Still, its always been paid without being picked up on, shows how much notice the banks take I s'pose.

 

 

Probably because they're so grateful that the contractual rate isn't being claimed!! Or as you say they're just m*pp*ts

[Mindzai]

There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid

 

To clarify the "interest you are entitled to claim back" that Lucid mentions is interest you have paid to the bank that you wouldnt have paid had you not been charged - not the s69 8% interest.

 

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations.

 

btw I'm no expert in this field, I only know about this because I had to research it when I made my spreadsheet. I'd never even heard of compound interest this time 3 months ago! If you think i'm wrong, tell me, cos the chances are you're right! Having said that in this case I am right

[Nenastar]

Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

Right, I've submitted my claim, thanks for all your help!

 

One question, how do I go about sending my spreadsheet of costs to the court? I claimed online, but I don't see an address or instructions on how to do this.

 

Thanks in advance!

Nena

[lucid]

Hi Nena,

 

I think you have to wait until you get your claim through in the post. This will have your claim number and a court address - I think. We submitted N1 forms so I'm going on information I've read elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure you can't send anything until you have your claim number through.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[reload]

As Lucid says - best to wait till you get your claim number back. You can then email Northampton CC with a copy of your Schedule of Charges and the claim number, and they can attach it to your file

[mb7533]

Hi,

 

I filed my claim on MCOL. Had heard about Lloyds using this defence so waited for my claim details to come through in the post and sent a copy of the schedule to Northampton bulk centre. Included a covering letter with my claim number and a couple of sentences along the lines of 'I respectfully request this schedule be added to the case file for claim xxxxxxxx.'

 

Sure enough when the defence came through there was a copy of the schedule attached by the courts. Also copied SCM lawyers and made sure this was clear in the letter to the court.

 

SCM put in the defence that there was no schedule of charges and it was great fun writing back stating that they and Lloyds had both had scedules before the defence was entered so I couldn't understand what exactly their point was?!

 

Matt

[GaryH]

You should get your claim number as soon as you press 'submit' on Moneyclaim. If you did'nt make a note of it, go back and have a look. Here's the letter I send when claiming on MCOL.

(YOUR ADDRESS)

 

 

 

 

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

 

(DATE)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(YOU) –v- (BANK)

Claim No: ********

 

I have today requested the issue of a County Court claim via the Moneyclaim online service, details as above.

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of the money taken from me by the defendant bank by way of charges, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached with the particulars of my claim.

 

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

(YOU)

[Nenastar]

Thanks Gary!

 

I've just realised that I've way over estimated my interest.

I had my first charge on the 9th November 2001, with the total amount of charges to date being £745.

Instead of calculating 09/11/01 - 09/11/05 (being four years @ £59.60 a year interest), then the 213 days x 0.16p between 09/11/05 to the date of the submitted claim, I've done it at 59.60 x five years! Does that make sense?

So instead of claiming £272.48 interest, I've claimed £348.40.... I'm such a wally!

I'm not sure what to do about my schedule now. I worked the interest out using the total amount of charges and not by each since charge, so I didn't use the spreadsheet to start off with.

I have a schedule, but without the interest on top. Would that do to send to the court?

I hope I'm making sense.... I can't figure out what I mean anymore! Sorry....

And thanks again.

 

Nena

[Nenastar]

Hi all,

 

Just thought I should write a quick message to say that I've filed my claim, had an acknowledgment from Lloyds and they have until 27th October to defend their claim. Haven't had the AQ yet, but will be searching the forum for advice when it comes!

Been reading Reload's thread on his first Lloyds claim, so feel reassured a little.

I'm claiming £1213.40 and hope I'll get it before the Christmas shopping frenzy starts!

Bank's Solicitors are Sechiari Clark and Mitchel, has that been the same for all the claims or do they use more than one solicitors? Anyone had any first hand experience with them?

 

Thanks to all those who helped me out in my first post and good luck to you all!

 

Nena

[christinajanep]

Hi Nena your at the same stage as me, SCM have until 26th to defend my claim and from what i can gather they wait until the very last second to file there defence, then they can say they are unable to attend court during a certain period ie october, november etc etc, this is just buying them time before they ahve to pay out, i also hopeful to have mine in the bank by christmas but i'm not betting on it thats for sure,

 

best of luck

christina:-D

[xxjosxx]

hi there, have just registered and am quite excited by it all. I too will be trying to claim my charges with lloyds tsb. Good luck and let me know how you get on. Just a quick question though... did you send your iniatial letter to the head office address or your local branch?

[Nenastar]

I sent all correspondance to "Lloyds TSB Bank PLC, 25 Gresham Street, London. EC2V 7HN". Its their registered office and got prompt replies from them too.

 

Christina, they acknowledge my claim on the same day as yours, so we really are going to be claiming buddies! lol Lets hope they don't mess us about too much.

 

Thank you both for the well wishes and good luck!!

 

Nena

[Nenastar]

Hi all,

Today is Lloyds last day they can enter a defence. Its the 28th day so technically their time is out, but just rang money claim and they recommend holding off until tomorrow to enter a judgement (if the gits don't enter their defence today of course).

Keep yer fingers crossed for me!

The guy on the phone also had a little giggle at my claim number as it has 666 in it... Reckon he's a bit of a devil worshiper... Or at least a D fan!! ;-)

Take care